Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
Socialist Progressives
In reply to the discussion: Did Marx underestimate the power of the middle class ? [View all]joshcryer
(62,536 posts)34. What do you think "new productive faculties" are?
We have seen above, that the first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class to win the battle of democracy.
The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm
The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm
He doesn't discuss changing the way production works in relation to the worker and the industry. I already quoted him being wrong in that "new productive faculties" did not result in "changing all the economic relations that were but necessary relations of that particular mode of production."
For Marx, production relations are literally tied to a given technology, he doesn't see technology as an emancipating force.
M. Proudhon the economist understands very well that men make cloth, linen, or silk materials in definite relations of production. But what he has not understood is that these definite social relations are just as much produced by men as linen, flax, etc. Social relations are closely bound up with productive forces. In acquiring new productive forces men change their mode of production; and in changing their mode of production, in changing the way of earning their living, they change all their social relations. The hand-mill gives you society with the feudal lord; the steam-mill society with the industrial capitalist. The same men who establish their social relations in conformity with the material productivity, produce also principles, ideas, and categories, in conformity with their social relations. Thus the ideas, these categories, are as little eternal as the relations they express. They are historical and transitory products. (...) The production relations of every society form a whole.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/poverty-philosophy/ch02.htm
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/poverty-philosophy/ch02.htm
I say that is completely wrong and utterly ludicrous, completely unsupportable. A hand mill is merely an advancement on the mortar and pestle, reducing labor and allowing one to make grain more efficiently. It doesn't magically enable feudal society.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
39 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
So the middle class in some places may turn out to have been sort of temporary.
limpyhobbler
Aug 2013
#8
There's a lot of history behind ALL of these reform/revolution arguments....
socialist_n_TN
Aug 2013
#12
"at no point in history did new productive facilities actually change the mode of production"
BOG PERSON
Aug 2013
#20