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LeftishBrit

(41,205 posts)
20. I have no sympathy for Blairism, but you may not realize quite how much damage Thatcherism did
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:00 AM
Jun 2016

Thatcher did truly exceptional damage to the country - absolute disaster to some parts; extensive damage to the social fabric in all. (In fact, I think that some of the Referendum problem is due to many people blaming the EU for social and economic changes that were really due to Thatcherism plus some global issues.)

Callaghan wasn't perfect; Healey was better but still not perfect, but both were miles better than Thatcher. Even Heath and Macmillan were miles better than Thatcher. Even John Major was IMO miles better than Thatcher, though as his MPs and Ministers were pretty much the same, and he wasn't much of a leader, it didn't make much difference. Indeed, this is one of the crucial issues: whatever the leaders are like, Labour generally has much better MPs and even Ministers than the Tories. Blair was better than Thatcher (yes, really - she was that bad!); perhaps not so much better as an individual than Major - but his MPs and even Ministers were much better than the Tory ones. And so some important policies were better: perhaps not on warmongering, or giving too much power to the banking industry, or keeping Chris Woodhead in charge of the schools inspectorate; but on the minimum wage, and social services spending, and not actively using unemployment as a club, and reduction of homophobia, and several others.

I didn't vote for Blair, by the way.

'If Labour truly can't, at an absolute minimum hold the line on preserving the tiny pathetic remnants of the social wage, what else can it do that is of any value?'


It WILL avoid destroying the social services as much as the Tories would!

I think it's important to remember that if there is a snap election, it may NOT be Cameron who leads the Tories into it, and even if he does, no one expects that he'd be leader for very long. The people who take power if there's a Leave vote are likely to be people very, very much worse than Cameron. Yes, it's quite possible to be even worse than Cameron; and some key Tories are; and their pressures and desire for power largely drove the referendum in the first place.

Winning elections didn't make me dislike Blair T_i_B May 2016 #1
I voted for Blair as Labour leader. Bad Dog May 2016 #2
If they go with that slogan, I might fly to the UK and campaign for Labour myself. n/t. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #6
It would set a nice precedent. Bad Dog Jun 2016 #8
Living in the North East, I heard Blair speak on numerous occasions before he was Leader ... non sociopath skin Jun 2016 #9
Neither Foot nor Kinnock made any impact on the electorate. Bad Dog Jun 2016 #10
It's not as though any Labour leader could have ousted Thatcher. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #13
Sounds like you don't want a Labour government of any complexion. Bad Dog Jun 2016 #15
I want a Labour government that doesn't treat Labour values as an embarrassment. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #19
I didn't vote for Corbyn. Bad Dog Jun 2016 #22
I'm glad you're willing to give Corbyn a chance now. And I don't TOTALLY disagree with you. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #23
I was prepared to give Corbyn a chance from the off. Bad Dog Jun 2016 #24
I have no sympathy for Blairism, but you may not realize quite how much damage Thatcherism did LeftishBrit Jun 2016 #20
Thatcher was horrific. Absolutely. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #21
Teflon Tony JawJaw May 2016 #3
Dangerous people, pacifist socialists. non sociopath skin May 2016 #4
No one's safe from not being killed by them. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #5
Labour never needed Blairism to win. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #7
Even without having the Murdoch press onside? Bad Dog Jun 2016 #11
Kinnock lost that election largely on personal unpopularity. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #12
I've not insisted on anything. Bad Dog Jun 2016 #14
Labour needs teamwork and competence to win T_i_B Jun 2016 #16
They do need teamwork and competence. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #17
It appears that Corbyn & Co aren't exactly blameless in this regard either T_i_B Jun 2016 #18
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