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Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
23. I'm glad you're willing to give Corbyn a chance now. And I don't TOTALLY disagree with you.
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 08:03 AM
Jun 2016

Obviously people outside of Labour have to vote for the party if it's to win an election.

But that doesn't mean there's no way to get the votes of such people other than by getting as close to the Tories as possible on most issues(i.e., the Blairite approach).

It's also possible to win non-Labour voters over to Labour by actually making a convincing argument for real change. If Thatcher was able to do that in an era when the vast majority of the electorate were well to her left, Labour can do so now.

It's also possible to expand Labour support WITHOUT pandering to right-wing voters-by reaching out to voters outside of it who are close to Labour on the issues.

This would mean cutting into the votes currently taken by the Greens, by the SNP(many of the voters who swung from Labour to SNP in 2015 could be won back if Labour in Scotland finally disassociates itself with Blairite ideas, as it refused to do in the last Holyrood election)from Plaid Cymru in Wales and from those who vote UKIP primarily on "anti-establishment-shake things up" grounds) and by making a concerted and highly-organized effort to turn current non-voters into voters.

You talk of "principled opposition" with seeming disdain. Is there any reason to think Labour would have been more successful against Thatcher herself if the party had had FEWER principles? If they'd said "we don't care deeply about anything, we just want to elect a government that CALLS itself 'Labour'"? And if it had what good would that have done? If a Blair-like figure had led Labour in the Eighties, that person would have just privatized and cut services SLIGHTLY less, would still have crushed the miners, would still have passed the anti-worker laws, would still probably have brought in Section 28(the Labour right wasn't against homophobia in the Eighties).

I can say this because that is pretty much what the Australian Labor Party government, the government that inspired Blairism did in that era.

Yes, it would have been a Labour government IN NAME. But would it in any sense have been worth the trouble of electing?

Winning elections didn't make me dislike Blair T_i_B May 2016 #1
I voted for Blair as Labour leader. Bad Dog May 2016 #2
If they go with that slogan, I might fly to the UK and campaign for Labour myself. n/t. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #6
It would set a nice precedent. Bad Dog Jun 2016 #8
Living in the North East, I heard Blair speak on numerous occasions before he was Leader ... non sociopath skin Jun 2016 #9
Neither Foot nor Kinnock made any impact on the electorate. Bad Dog Jun 2016 #10
It's not as though any Labour leader could have ousted Thatcher. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #13
Sounds like you don't want a Labour government of any complexion. Bad Dog Jun 2016 #15
I want a Labour government that doesn't treat Labour values as an embarrassment. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #19
I didn't vote for Corbyn. Bad Dog Jun 2016 #22
I'm glad you're willing to give Corbyn a chance now. And I don't TOTALLY disagree with you. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #23
I was prepared to give Corbyn a chance from the off. Bad Dog Jun 2016 #24
I have no sympathy for Blairism, but you may not realize quite how much damage Thatcherism did LeftishBrit Jun 2016 #20
Thatcher was horrific. Absolutely. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #21
Teflon Tony JawJaw May 2016 #3
Dangerous people, pacifist socialists. non sociopath skin May 2016 #4
No one's safe from not being killed by them. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #5
Labour never needed Blairism to win. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #7
Even without having the Murdoch press onside? Bad Dog Jun 2016 #11
Kinnock lost that election largely on personal unpopularity. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #12
I've not insisted on anything. Bad Dog Jun 2016 #14
Labour needs teamwork and competence to win T_i_B Jun 2016 #16
They do need teamwork and competence. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #17
It appears that Corbyn & Co aren't exactly blameless in this regard either T_i_B Jun 2016 #18
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