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Denzil_DC

(7,233 posts)
3. It's not all about Corbyn at this point. It's barely even about Labour any more.
Mon Mar 20, 2017, 10:22 PM
Mar 2017

T_i_B didn't even mention Corbyn (displaying admirable restraint!). I think I'm about to make up for that.

There's a vacuum on the broad left and among the Remain vote that isn't being filled. Where it is being filled, at a UK level it's largely the Lib Dems that are making the running, mainly by default.

Corbyn's shown no leadership on Brexit - the biggest fight we face - in the last year or so whatsoever. He had some excuse when there was the distraction of his leadership being challenged by those stupid, craven opportunists at precisely the worst time for us all. There's no excuse now.

I never bought into the line that he was a closet Leaver during the referendum campaign and deliberately hung back or even sabotaged the Remain campaign - all the evidence since has been that any public stand and appearance by any establishment leadership figure had a net negative effect on support for whatever campaign they were speaking for.

But any bets of mine started to be canceled on the morning after the vote when Corbyn immediately buckled rather than biding his time and letting the Tories get on with their embarrassing internecine warfare.

And then the attempted coup provided a handy distraction.

But now, I find his stances and those of the party leadership as a whole incomprehensible. Are they hoping to have it both ways - pay lipservice to Brexit while secretly hoping the whole escapade will collapse under the weight of its own impracticality, so the problem goes away and they can eventually reap the electoral rewards from the Tories' humiliation? They're more likely to go down with the same ship. Or worse, have they wholeheartedly bought in to the "the people have spoken, so over the cliff we all have to go" bullcrap?

I'm not clear how much blame for Corbyn's current lack of initiative can be laid solely at his feet, and how much it's to do with his trying to accommodate the timidity that's been apparent in the Labour upper echelons for a long time now, in some mistaken drive for parliamentary party unity after the leadership challenge he faced.

But there are only so many open goals he can miss at PMQs, only so many flatfooted responses like "The real fight starts now" immediately after three-line-whipping support for the Brexit vote, FFS, before he falls into self-parody. He fought for the role, he had overwhelming support. That's all done now, so when's he going to start leading? He had harsher words (and more laughably inaccurate criticisms, but that's by the by) for the SNP when he addressed the Scottish Labour Party Conference a couple of weeks ago than he's had for the Tories since to took over the leadership!

If Labour showed half the commitment and fire combating the Tories and Brexit that they did when they were knocking chunks out of each other last year, they might not be shedding members all over again right now.

I'll most likely never vote Labour again in my life. But I'd like to see it at least functional, because we desperately need an effective opposition, and there's only so much the SNP can do in Westminster to fulfil that role. And if Labour can't pull itself together in some operational form soon, it's better off disbanding or fragmenting, in the hope that something more functional might rise from the ashes.

Bargaining with and harping on about the Watsonite/McNicholite wing of Labour isn't going to get anywhere. I'm beyond tired, I think people in general are beyond tired, of the histrionics of Labour infighting. It was a not insignificant part of what all but killed them off in Scotland.

People, unless they're so cynical they're not likely to vote anyway, like to think politicians are looking out for them, not spending all their days jockeying for position and wasting valuable time on struggles that do nothing to improve anyone's life. But above all, they have to stand for something. I don't see the Jeremy Corbyn who used to stand for something anywhere at the moment. Where the hell did he go?

All I will say here... T_i_B Mar 2017 #1
The anti-Corbyn types probably could have persuaded Corbyn to go... Ken Burch Mar 2017 #2
It's not all about Corbyn at this point. It's barely even about Labour any more. Denzil_DC Mar 2017 #3
There are valid points in what you've said. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #4
There's not much point having a leader if he/she doesn't lead. n/t Denzil_DC Mar 2017 #5
No one the PLP would accept would lead-all they care about is putting a "moderate" in. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #6
And too many of the Corbynites care only about kicking the moderates out T_i_B Mar 2017 #7
The "moderates" could stop all of that if they just stopped scheming against the current leader. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #12
Wrong. T_i_B Mar 2017 #13
Would you agree with what I suggested above... Ken Burch Mar 2017 #17
No T_i_B Mar 2017 #18
Care to say why my theories are garbage? Ken Burch Mar 2017 #20
Dude - read what I've written above. Denzil_DC Mar 2017 #9
I don't want to talk about Corbyn or anti-Corbyn either....but the anti-people "Labour" MPs Ken Burch Mar 2017 #14
"The best approach was to fight to save multicultural Britain in a post-Brexit world." Denzil_DC Mar 2017 #30
In the here and now, there was never any chance that ANY Tory MPs would defy May on Article 50. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #32
Nonsense. There are Tory MPs who are opposed, Denzil_DC Mar 2017 #33
Thanks Denzil T_i_B Mar 2017 #8
If Corbyn hasn't disappointed me on the Scottish issue, Denzil_DC Mar 2017 #10
I actually feel sorry for Kezia Dugdale T_i_B Mar 2017 #11
Why is she even still leading Holyrood Labour after a third-place finish? Ken Burch Mar 2017 #15
Who else is there in Scottish Labour? T_i_B Mar 2017 #16
Is it a requirement that the Scottish Labour leader be a sitting MSP? Ken Burch Mar 2017 #19
Party leaders should always be elected officials T_i_B Mar 2017 #21
That creates a dilemma: Ken Burch Mar 2017 #22
Labour's rivals would love that proposal T_i_B Mar 2017 #23
Why on earth is it so important to you that Scottish Labour survives? Denzil_DC Mar 2017 #27
Only because Labour needs to make a comeback in Scotland... Ken Burch Mar 2017 #28
I've had to knock this myth down before. Sorry, your first argument is just nonsense. Denzil_DC Mar 2017 #29
I respect your opinions. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #31
I could make some guesses where you might have read stuff like that. Denzil_DC Mar 2017 #34
I appreciate the additional information. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #35
That's a shame. One would hope for better. Denzil_DC Mar 2017 #36
Her deputy, Alex Rowley, would be in improvement in all sorts of ways. Denzil_DC Mar 2017 #24
OK, we have a point of agreement, finally. Denzil_DC Mar 2017 #25
This message was self-deleted by its author Warpy Mar 2017 #26
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