Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
3. Is there any possible honorable way for Labour to go full-on anti-Brexit at this point?
Mon Jun 19, 2017, 09:03 PM
Jun 2017

I'm a bit suspicious of the author's motivations on that, since the myth that the Leave victory was Corbyn's fault(it was actually solely the fault of the horrible campaign the pro-Remain forces ran, and Corbyn himself had little say in how that campaign was run) was the most damaging accusation the anti-Corbynites made. At the same time that the anti-Corbs kept screaming that the man was "unelectable", they insisted that he somehow had the magical ability to stop Brexit by personal force of will. Seems to me that THAT is a bit of a "contradiction".

I think some means should be arranged(perhaps under "devo max&quot for Scotland to stay within the EU, but it's hard to see how trying, at this late date, to reverse Brexit for the whole of the UK can achieve anything other than to bringing UKIP back from near-death...and god help anyone trying to organize antiracist, anti-xenophobia movements if THAT happens.

The EU is a deeply mixed bag...good on the social liberal aspects, reactionary on the economic constraints it imposes. If an Eu member country obeys the internal spending constraints the EU mandates-constraints the EU never had any right to impose on any member nation-it is impossible for that country to have any economic policies other than Thatcherism. Those constraints make it impossible for a Labour(or social democratic on the European mainland)governments to do anything pro-worker or pro-full employment. Those parties can't even stop making the kinds of benefit cuts only right-wing governments use to make.

And even if none of that were the case(if you believe social democracy and a full-employment economic system is possible under perpetual spending constraints, I'd love to hear why) how could Labour look anything but antidemocratic and, frankly, pathetic in trying to reverse Brexit now? In what areas of the UK could making a last-ditch all-out fight to stop Brexit gain the party any votes? It looks as though this is a demand that Jeremy commit electoral suicide and give Nigel Farage a chance for a comeback.

As I've said, if I lived in the UK, I'd have campaigned for Remain...I wish Remain had prevailed...at that TIME, that was the progressive position to take...but what's the point in trying to restart, at this late date not only a losing battle, but a LOST battle? I simply can't see how doing so can lead to anything but large Labour losses at the next election and a restored Tory majority by default....an outcome, btw, that would make Scottish independence impossible, as far as I can see.

The only possible way it could work would be if the PLP and the right-wing majority on the Labour NEC were to accept Corbyn taking a "Remain and Defy" position...that is, fighting to stay within the EU AND announcing that a Labour government would defy EU spending constraints-in other words, making it clear that Corbyn's Labour would never be forced to be the next SYRIZA.

Short of that, I don't see how Jeremy or any other possible Labour leader could manage to relaunch the fight to stop Brexit.


I'd have a bit more respect for the arguments there... Ken Burch Jun 2017 #1
Ha, wondered when you'd be along. Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #2
Is there any possible honorable way for Labour to go full-on anti-Brexit at this point? Ken Burch Jun 2017 #3
OK, I'll try to take this para by para. But first your OP line: Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #4
I'm aware that a large group of Labour politicians before Corbyn came along Ken Burch Jun 2017 #5
Do you have any idea the economic mess the UK was in before it joined the EC? Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #6
What was done to Greece is what will be done to ANY left government under the EU. Ken Burch Jun 2017 #7
You mentioned the Attlee example simply because you don't have any answer at all Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #8
There is some pretty good stuff in Labour's platform... T_i_B Jun 2017 #9
Thanks, T_i_B. Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #10
The reason why they can get away with it right now.... T_i_B Jun 2017 #11
"white van man", not "white can man" Ken Burch Jun 2017 #12
Dude, if you're going to pick on an obvious typo Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #13
Sorry, the "can man" thing was meant as a joke Ken Burch Jun 2017 #14
Read this thread here: Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #15
I know the routine. And I'd have voted Remain. Ken Burch Jun 2017 #16
See, for you it's the luxury of being a hypothetical issue. Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #17
This is pretty much the same argument.... T_i_B Jun 2017 #18
Well, the Labour manifesto's carefully worded. Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #19
I'm not "rabid anti-EU". I support them on the parts of what they do that are progressive. Ken Burch Jun 2017 #25
Well, "Jeremy" must be a grave disappointment to you. Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #27
I'm fine with what Corbyn's doing there. I've never been rabidly anti-EU and you know it. Ken Burch Jun 2017 #28
First of all, I do agree that the Remain campaign was very poor; that if it had been better we might LeftishBrit Jun 2017 #29
"I think your feelings about Corbyn are driven by he apparent Labour-Tory cooperation in Scotland." Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #30
OK, I withdraw the word "apparent"...I use that word to mean "essentially proved" Ken Burch Jun 2017 #32
Well, if he stopped telling blatant lies about the SNP's record in government when he comes up here Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #33
You are assuming that the two are separable LeftishBrit Jun 2017 #21
'All it can lead to is lost seats...' LeftishBrit Jun 2017 #22
While I do not defend the EU's treatment of Greece, it was not mainly an ideological assault LeftishBrit Jun 2017 #23
You seem not to have noticed that Denmark now has a right-wing, anti-immigrant government Ken Burch Jun 2017 #26
So the EU's responsible for the choices of the Danish electorate? Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #31
'The EU didn't exist when Labour created the post-war social welfare state' LeftishBrit Jun 2017 #24
Good article! LeftishBrit Jun 2017 #20
Latest Discussions»Region Forums»United Kingdom»Reassessing Corbynism: su...»Reply #3