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Denzil_DC

(7,221 posts)
38. The problem is this:
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 10:07 AM
Nov 2017

While even a lowly poster on DU can try to come up with a constructive (though far from ideal) way out of the urgent conundrum that faces Labour over Brexit, Corbyn was still banging this old discredited Bennite drum a month ago:

Corbyn reignites Labour debate over EU rules on state aid and socialist manifesto

Jeremy Corbyn reignited a decades-old debate inside the Labour party this week when he claimed a socialist manifesto might be blocked by the European Union’s rules on state aid if the UK tried to stay in the single market. ... Corbyn told the Andrew Marr Show the single market “has within it restrictions in state aid and state spending. That has pressures on it through the European Union to privatise rail for example and other services.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/29/corbyn-reignites-labour-debate-over-eu-rules-on-state-aid-and-socialist-manifesto


So rather than paving the way for a "reset" as you seem to imagine, he's bolstering the case against the EU in terms that will come back to bite him in the arse if he tries to backtrack.

From the same article:

Anand Menon, professor of European politics at King’s College London, said the argument that EU state aid rules would constrain Labour’s manifesto pledges on nationalisation is “nonsense”.

Two lawyers expert in EU state aid law, Andy Tarrant and Andrea Biondi, say they have tested 26 economic proposals in the 2017 manifesto to see if they fall foul of any EU law. They conclude most do not even potentially fall within the scope of the state aid rules.

...

Lord John Monks, the veteran trade union leader, said: “There are no strict rules binding Corbyn, but there is a philosophy [in Brussels] that nationalisation is a bad thing. That said, we never noticed anyone being stopped from doing anything.” He pointed to a German scheme to protect jobs during the financial crisis and France, “which has done what it’s always done”.


More detail at the link about this debate. (Also take a look at the Guardian's links to other stories at the bottom of that article for a snapshot of Labour's disarray on all this during the course of this summer.)

I'm left in the same dilemma I am about Corbyn's attitude to Scottish politics: is he just ignorant of the inconvenient nuances of the argument, or does he know the truth and is lying?

We've been through your other suggestion above before as well.

There's more prospect of a squadron of porkers swooping down on No. 10 and crapping in formation on Theresa May's head than Labour making a pre-election deal with the SNP. Add it to the long list of things that just aren't going to happen.

We've also discussed who might fare better than May as Tory leader before, and there just hasn't been much polling about it, certainly among the electorate outside the Tory Party, so all bets are off for me. Though I reckon Ruth Davidson taking over the Tory leadership is another to add to that list of things that aren't going to happen. I only mention it when I do it because it makes me boggle at the desperation and paucity of talent within the Tories! It might be fun to watch her try, though ... Having said that, these are strange times, and weirder things have happened.
Until the government collapses T_i_B Nov 2017 #1
As much as I want the Tories out, I also want the DUP to face electoral punishment over this Ken Burch Nov 2017 #2
I don't think the DUP would be punished by voters for this LeftishBrit Nov 2017 #3
Well, times change, but this was from 2010: Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #4
A snap election can't come soon enough. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #5
I wouldn't credit the DUP with that much T_i_B Nov 2017 #6
I'd like to see quite a bit more clear water between the Tories and Labour Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #7
I'm for even more clear water than there is, although there's a lot more than previously. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #8
The latest poll I've seen showed Labour 3 points ahead. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #11
In theory, Labour should be much further ahead in the polls T_i_B Nov 2017 #12
I think at times recently Labour have been providing a more effective opposition. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #13
OK, somehow I hadn't see this earlier. I'll respond now. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #23
I've addressed pretty much all this at quite some length below. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #28
I thought I owed it to you to respond to this post when I saw it. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #29
You would agree that any continued anti-Corbyn efforts, including expulsions of his supporters, Ken Burch Nov 2017 #20
No. T_i_B Nov 2017 #37
To clarify, I wasn't condemning every single expulsion. Misogynists should be expelled. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #40
Wrong T_i_B Nov 2017 #41
OK...you can't seriously argue that there are people who are antiracist AND antisemitic. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #42
You really don't have experience of people in real life do you? T_i_B Nov 2017 #43
I have plenty of experence in real life. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #44
Given that you keep posting the same old theoretical bollocks T_i_B Nov 2017 #45
This message was self-deleted by its author Ken Burch Nov 2017 #49
I haven't mentioned the EU once on this thread T_i_B Nov 2017 #50
I have read the other posts...I'm sorry I misdirected that response to you. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #51
Christ, have you never ever misread something? Ken Burch Nov 2017 #53
I've met some. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #46
Oh...to clarify...by "clear blue water", I thought you meant policy differences. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #14
Do you not actually read anything anybody posts? T_i_B Nov 2017 #15
I read what he posted. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #21
In that particular post, I was plainly referring to clear water in terms of polling. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #16
You seem to think I'm a closet Leaver Ken Burch Nov 2017 #17
Bleedin' Ada. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #18
I'm only speaking for myself, and am not trying to convince you personally, Denzil. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #19
Now you REALLY are trying my patience, as if you hadn't already. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #22
OK, a reset is a good idea. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #24
It would also help if you'd stop making major edits to your posts after you've written them. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #25
Fair enough. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #26
Well, it mattered a bit more this time because you added questions to the end. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #27
When I started this thread, I never meant to get into Brexit. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #30
I didn't say that I thought a reset was a great idea. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #31
I don't disagree with a single thing you've said there. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #32
Well, to return to my entry to this discussion, Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #33
OK. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #34
The problem is this: Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #38
Denzil, I'm not trying to persuade YOU to vote Labour. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #39
Why do you think Labour's support would plummet if it supported Remain? LeftishBrit Nov 2017 #35
I DON'T condemn Labour's support for Remain in the referendum. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #36
"I do think it's time that people stop blaming Corbyn for the Leave victory" Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #47
Look, this all started because I honestly misunderstood what Denzil meant by "clear blue water". Ken Burch Nov 2017 #48
Jeebus. This "small group of you that post in the UK group" Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #54
Wasn't meaning to lecture...I respect your views on the EU and truly wasn't challenging them. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #55
OK...I misread it. In terms of UK politics, I'm used to seeing the term "clear blue water" Ken Burch Nov 2017 #52
She'll call an election The King of Prussia Nov 2017 #9
I thought she would have done it around october syringis Nov 2017 #10
Ok. I live in England and from NI so I have opinions on both these things....... Soph0571 Nov 2017 #56
Thank you for that. there's a fair amount of things in there I didn't know. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #57
Unfortunately the community is divided and always will be Soph0571 Nov 2017 #58
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