All insiders with access can change the electronic votes, not just the voting machine companies. (Reply #147)

In the discussion thread: Show Me The Source Code Or Throw The Voting Machines Out!!!!! [View all]

Fri Aug 19, 2016, 10:53 AM

147. All insiders with access can change the electronic votes, not just the voting machine companies.

Last edited Fri Aug 19, 2016, 03:09 PM - Edit history (1)

I take your point that if there are untampered paper ballots then a hand recount can be done accurately to
show the will of the voters.

But all the voting systems used in Ohio - Diebold/Premier + ES&S + Hart Intercivic - have been proven to have appalling security holes and exploits which can easily change vote totals for huge numbers of votes.

ES&S ballot scanners and central tabulators are used in three of the most populous counties - Cuyahoga, Franklin and
Summit counties. That's over 2 Million of Ohio's 8 million registered voters. And in addition ES&S (Election Systems & Software Inc.) controls the votes of 38 more Ohio counties.

So in Ohio the transparency of the entire ES&S computer system is one of the biggest questions.

The 'paper trail' or 'poll tapes' printed out by the machines can be easily rigged without anyone detecting that the tabulations software was ever illegally accessed. But at least there are paper ballots. IF they are ever actually counted by hand.

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149 replies	Author	Time	Post
Show Me The Source Code Or Throw The Voting Machines Out!!!!! [View all]	scottie55	Apr 2016	OP
I say just throw them out, period. There are better ways. Ones in which people	silvershadow	Apr 2016	#1
YES!	haikugal	Apr 2016	#4
We have to fight for this. We don't currently have a fair democracy. nt	stillwaiting	Apr 2016	#15
What better methods would you suggest?	metroins	Apr 2016	#52
Yes workers can cheat.	zeemike	Apr 2016	#60
Pair Republican counters with Democratic counters...	Thespian2	Apr 2016	#87
I would add:	bvar22	Apr 2016	#121
Well if I were designing it myself.	zeemike	Apr 2016	#128
Why just retired people?	druidity33	Apr 2016	#129
To add some importance to the job.	zeemike	Apr 2016	#130
I can't endorse "closed doors".	bvar22	Apr 2016	#131
Not sealed off or hidden from view	zeemike	Apr 2016	#134
In most nations, our included, the ballots are counted AFTER the poll closes.	bvar22	Apr 2016	#139
Well that is a good point.	zeemike	Apr 2016	#143
The more complex, the easier it is to make it close enough	annabanana	Apr 2016	#132
Exactly.n/t	zeemike	Apr 2016	#135
Depends on who controls	kacekwl	Apr 2016	#82
.	merrily	Apr 2016	#2
India Voting	LiberalArkie	Apr 2016	#3
I Bet They Are Open Source And Verifiable Right?	Yallow	Apr 2016	#6
I read several years ago about a system they had developed at a university there.	LiberalArkie	Apr 2016	#10
A first-year high school computer science student	SusanCalvin	Apr 2016	#24
Those machines were designed from the git go to be hacked. That is the only way they would have been	LiberalArkie	Apr 2016	#29
I completely agree. HAVA was a huge scam.	SusanCalvin	Apr 2016	#44
And you need to see the ballot definition file for every election.	Wilms	Apr 2016	#5
It Needs To Do Multiple Backups During The Process So Tampering Can Be Spotted	Yallow	Apr 2016	#7
Not sure.	Wilms	Apr 2016	#11
At any time the congress could have mandated secure voting machines (it would be easy to do)	LiberalArkie	Apr 2016	#8
The ghost of Andy Stephenson agrees.	truedelphi	Apr 2016	#19
If the revolution can continue long enough to get some people in congress. If the old Occupy	LiberalArkie	Apr 2016	#25
Right You Are! Each month, there are 360,000,000 transactions processed by ATM	truedelphi	Apr 2016	#33
People have never demanded it. There are federal laws about accuracy with financial transactions	LiberalArkie	Apr 2016	#42
Taking a receipt home does no good to ensure accuracy	JohnnyRingo	Apr 2016	#47
If people insist on machines, that sounds good. nt	SusanCalvin	Apr 2016	#77
I miss him	annabanana	Apr 2016	#136
bullshit - this is one party doing this crap - republicans	certainot	Apr 2016	#84
Someone Might Vote The Corrupt Assholes Out	Yallow	Apr 2016	#9
Voting in the U.S. is one big joke. nt	valerief	Apr 2016	#12
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ n/t	truedelphi	Apr 2016	#34
do you think these voting machines are also the reason Obama won twice?	La Lioness Priyanka	Apr 2016	#13
Lol, I bet you think Bush won fairly. nt	phazed0	Apr 2016	#14
the second time around he did.	La Lioness Priyanka	Apr 2016	#17
Second time not so much either.	SusanCalvin	Apr 2016	#22
No, I think Obama had such a huge majority	SusanCalvin	Apr 2016	#23
Exactly. In 2008, he had huge crossover voter appeal.	truedelphi	Apr 2016	#35
As I understand it ...	aggiesal	Apr 2016	#62
Yeah, that too.	SusanCalvin	Apr 2016	#75
obama knew from the beginning	questionseverything	Apr 2016	#56
Yep. I remember that. nt	SusanCalvin	Apr 2016	#76
I think ACT and SAT fill in the circles	PatrynXX	Apr 2016	#16
You know how they count those?	JohnnyRingo	Apr 2016	#43
You realize that NY used verifiable paper ballots, right? n/t	pnwmom	Apr 2016	#18
this does not fit the narrative, so the reality is rejected.	La Lioness Priyanka	Apr 2016	#20
?	scottie55	Apr 2016	#30
the optical scans can be rigged too	questionseverything	Apr 2016	#58
The OP may be in response to NY (I have no idea)	SusanCalvin	Apr 2016	#26
In New York 126,000 voters 14% of all Democrats in Brooklyn were purged. That's no accident.	think	Apr 2016	#31
Thank you for pointing out some most important information	truedelphi	Apr 2016	#39
A Republican elections office person has been suspended and an investigation is ongoing.	pnwmom	Apr 2016	#40
You realize that unlike more progressive Calif, where a person can still	truedelphi	Apr 2016	#36
They could have voted for their hearts desire if they had registered last October, since he	pnwmom	Apr 2016	#41
Supposedly, the Democratic Party wants to reach out...	earthmanneil	Apr 2016	#67
I didn't, but that's why suppression is important.	roody	Apr 2016	#53
Do they use optical scanners to count votes, or do they hand count? n/t	Bodych	Apr 2016	#54
Yes. Should have been done years ago.	SusanCalvin	Apr 2016	#21
The legacy of SCOTUS and the GWB selection rolls on, doesn't it? nt.	silvershadow	Apr 2016	#27
I Guess I Am Not The Only One That Knows/Thinks Elections Are Fixed	scottie55	Apr 2016	#28
what WILL it take to get people to act on this???	Fast Walker 52	Apr 2016	#32
How do we even know Sanders supporters didn't hack Michigan	HillareeeHillaraah	Apr 2016	#37
How about going higher Tech instead?	Amimnoch	Apr 2016	#38
Internet Voting	scottie55	Apr 2016	#57
no that's no good - that means if there's a problem every one	certainot	Apr 2016	#85
Am I recalling correctly that Diebold said they couldn't generate a receipt?	paparush	Apr 2016	#122
I believe the voting machines in Ohio are accurate.	JohnnyRingo	Apr 2016	#45
Well they stole Ohio in 2004	Pharaoh	Apr 2016	#49
Those were different machines	JohnnyRingo	Apr 2016	#55
Strickland Was Beyond Evil	scottie55	Apr 2016	#59
He's running for senator in Ohio to replace Rob Portman	JohnnyRingo	Apr 2016	#91
foolish to trust any system we the people cannot personally oversee	questionseverything	Apr 2016	#61
Our system has oversight	JohnnyRingo	Apr 2016	#93
while making sure the "output" the machine spits out is possible, not reporting more votes than	questionseverything	Apr 2016	#108
We have a sign in book	JohnnyRingo	Apr 2016	#111
you keep referring to making the count match how many voted, which is ONE step	questionseverything	Apr 2016	#114
The paper trail is the verification of machine count	JohnnyRingo	Apr 2016	#115
please provide a link to the state board of elections that shows	questionseverything	Apr 2016	#116
I do it myself	JohnnyRingo	Apr 2016	#125
i knew no human actually counted the vote...just wanted you to admit it ,thanks	questionseverything	Apr 2016	#140
Any system can be defrauded to an extent...	JohnnyRingo	Apr 2016	#141
	questionseverything	Apr 2016	#142
All the main touchscreen machine types and the Diebold Optical Scans have been hacked in tests.	Hacking_Democracy	Aug 2016	#145
Ohio uses three different companies to record our votes.	JohnnyRingo	Aug 2016	#146
All insiders with access can change the electronic votes, not just the voting machine companies.	Hacking_Democracy	Aug 2016	#147
Paper ballots	Pharaoh	Apr 2016	#64
Me either. nt	SusanCalvin	Apr 2016	#78
I'm guessing you just patented purple ink remover	JohnnyRingo	Apr 2016	#94
They tried to steal it in 2012 as well	dflprincess	Apr 2016	#65
Ohio voting machines are not connected to the internet	JohnnyRingo	Apr 2016	#92
it was the reporting website that they tried to cover with a "mirror" website with a different	questionseverything	Apr 2016	#109
Thank you	dflprincess	Apr 2016	#144
just have elections by a DMV thumb-print app on your phone	veronique25	Apr 2016	#46
We are not screwed	Pharaoh	Apr 2016	#48
proprietary code serves a rigged system	The Wizard	Apr 2016	#50
100% NT	northernsouthern	Apr 2016	#51
It's the optical scanners and central tabulators doing the dirty work...	Bodych	Apr 2016	#63
At least there are marked ballots that could be reviewed.	paparush	Apr 2016	#123
Paper ballots, hand counted, in public, cameras rolling, nothing less.	Scuba	Apr 2016	#66
You got it :-) n/t	Bodych	Apr 2016	#68
Yep. nt	SusanCalvin	Apr 2016	#74
That's a real election, a fair had honest election. Bingo!! nt	99th_Monkey	Apr 2016	#81
Print the ballots	SCVDem	Apr 2016	#69
Yeah!	Pharaoh	Apr 2016	#70
excellent cannabinoid idea, but...	veronique25	Apr 2016	#95
K&R. Please don't forget to...	Mr_Jefferson_24	Apr 2016	#71
Did not know this group existed. This primary is so rigged. It is very obvious for who.	bkkyosemite	Apr 2016	#72
Oh my!	SusanCalvin	Apr 2016	#79
K&R. Yes please!	Overseas	Apr 2016	#73
Kicked and recommended to the Max!	Enthusiast	Apr 2016	#80
In India and other countries with parliamentary systems, voters don't choose candidates	eridani	Apr 2016	#83
It makes me wonder why our elections costs so much money.	midnight	Apr 2016	#86
I think paper ballot with counting at each precinct is THE only way to go.	MrMickeysMom	Apr 2016	#88
"It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide	ish of the hammer	Apr 2016	#89
Yes, we could be screwed. And our media ignores it.	CaptainTruth	Apr 2016	#90
Recall Election Fraud in Wisconsin? You Betcha!	red dog 1	Apr 2016	#96
The mere fact that the source code is proprietary is suspicious	ToxMarz	Apr 2016	#97
But... WHAT'S INSIDE THAT iPHONE ?! TELL ME; WHAT'S INSIDE THAT iPHONE	King_Klonopin	Apr 2016	#98
Bern it Down! nt	silvershadow	Apr 2016	#99
But, here in America- "I want the results NOW!!!"	stlsaxman	Apr 2016	#100
I believe if we polled Americans and asked them if they could wait until the next day	stillwaiting	Apr 2016	#101
The NETWORKS want the results NOW.	paparush	Apr 2016	#124
There is no reason there would be delays	LiberalLovinLug	Apr 2016	#126
i have an indian friend that brags to me about being apart of a democracy	retrowire	Apr 2016	#102
Exactly! We have more protections in Las Vegas!!	ViseGrip	Apr 2016	#103
Some interesting pro and con opinions	elljay	Apr 2016	#104
Didn't happen the first time; won't happen this time either.	closeupready	Apr 2016	#105
USA is looking pretty damned silly right about now	KPN	Apr 2016	#106
Paper ballots	Plucketeer	Apr 2016	#107
And people think that by just talking about it,	Madmiddle	Apr 2016	#110
Yep.	Kurovski	Apr 2016	#112
Slot Machines vs Voting Machines	benld74	Apr 2016	#113
Kicked and recommended.	Uncle Joe	Apr 2016	#117
I Used to Be a Government Programmer	Leith	Apr 2016	#118
Your response should be its own OP	d_legendary1	Apr 2016	#120
If we can't throw out the computers ...	november3rd	Apr 2016	#119
Bingo. This would solve a lot of problems. nt.	Else You Are Mad	Apr 2016	#138
YES	Angry Dragon	Apr 2016	#127
+10000000	colsohlibgal	Apr 2016	#133
If my grocery store can give me	Marthe48	Apr 2016	#137
agree	clarkkentvotes	Sep 2016	#148
DARPA funded Opensource voting software and hardware	Luvapottamus	Mar 2019	#149

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