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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Mon Apr 20, 2015, 02:31 AM

4. If this fails, something fatal to democracy will happen.

Both Paul Ryan and Rand Paul have called for an Article V Convention. While the reason for calling it per this article is to overcome Citizens United that's not what they want it for.

Paul, Ryan, the Koches, Tea Partiers, Constitutional Party, Tenther and Sovereign Citizens movements have less democratic reasons. A little more of their agenda below. This is what they intend to do, and it will all be completely legal and the law of the entire USA if they get 38 states to ratify the changes. While this has not been done in the past, there's no certainty they can't do it. Especially since they are imposing draconian laws on their citizens right now which somewhat 'normalizes' it.

Attacking of the 14th Amendment is their goal. But don't think it would stop there, as they intend to eliminate the IRS and women's sufferage. Even women who are GOP elected officials say that women should not vote. So many laws we have taken for granted could be gone, as the Constitution supercedes all. Think about who is on the court now, which some already call the Koch Court:

See below what we stand to lose with them tinkering with or repealing it. **

Ryan said when they turned enough state legislatures 'red' they'd call for the Constitutional convention. Ryan gave the reason that they needed to repeal birthright citizenship to eliminate 'anchor babies.'

Paul is also eager to 'reform' the 14th to allow Congress 'to define what a human life is.' He says they'll define the unborn as having every right under the Constitution. Women will have none in that case. Isn't this the trend now throught the states?

I don't trust these legislatures to be in charge of a Constitutional convention.

It requires 34 states to call for an Article V Covention. Consider the makeup of the 'red' legislatures and what they have done in power since 2010 and more since 2014. Most of these legislators are Koch lackeys. Then read the Koch agenda below.***

Convention to propose amendments to the United States Constitution

A Convention to propose amendments to the United States Constitution, also called an Article V Convention, or Amendments Convention, is one of two procedures for proposing amendments to the United States Constitution described in Article Five of the Constitution. The other method is a vote by two-thirds of each house of Congress.

According to Article V, Congress must call for an amendment-proposing convention, “on the application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States," meaning 34 state legislatures would have to submit applications. Once an Article V Convention has proposed an amendment or amendments, then the amendment or amendments would have to be ratified by three-fourths of the states (38 states) in order to become part of the Constitution.

Congress has the power to choose between two methods of ratification*: ratification by the state legislatures, or instead ratification by state conventions called for that purpose. In contrast to those separate state ratification conventions, a convention to propose amendments to the United States Constitution would be a single federal convention. While there have been calls for a second federal convention based on a single issue such as the Balanced Budget Amendment, it is not clear whether a convention summoned in this way would be legally bound to limit discussion to a single issue; law professor Michael Stokes Paulsen has suggested that such a convention would have the "power to propose anything it sees fit".[1] All 27 amendments to the Constitution have happened in a procedural sense by going through Congress and not through proposal by state legislatures.[1]

In recent years some constitutional scholars have argued that state governments should call for such a convention.[2][3] They include Michael Farris, Lawrence Lessig, Sanford Levinson, Larry Sabato, Jonathan Turley, and Mark Levin.[2][4][5] As of 2015, there is an active nationwide effort to call an Article V Convention. Citizens for Self-Governance, through a project called Convention of the States, is promoting Article V legislation in all 50 states in a bid to rein in the federal government.[6] In March 2014, Georgia became the first state to pass the group's Convention of States application.[7] Alaska and Florida followed suit in April 2014.[8][9][10][11][12] Similarly, the group Wolf-PAC chose this method to promote its cause, which is to overturn Citizens United v. FEC. Their resolution passed first in Vermont[13] in May 2014 and a month later in California. On December 3, 2014 Illinois became the third state to pass this resolution;[14] and on February 23rd, 2015 New Jersey became the fourth.[15]


*The Congress is dominated by the GOP radicals. What do you think they will do with that power?

**Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution

The Fourteenth Amendment (Amendment XIV) to the United States Constitution was adopted on July 9, 1868, as one of the Reconstruction Amendments. The amendment addresses citizenship rights and equal protection of the laws, and was proposed in response to issues related to former slaves following the American Civil War. The amendment was bitterly contested, particularly by Southern states, which were forced to ratify it in order for them to regain representation in Congress. The Fourteenth Amendment, particularly its first section, is one of the most litigated parts of the Constitution, forming the basis for landmark decisions such as Roe v. Wade (1973), regarding abortion, and Bush v. Gore (2000), regarding the 2000 presidential election. The amendment limits the actions of all state and local officials, including those acting on behalf of such an official.

The second, third, and fourth sections of the amendment are seldom litigated. However, Section 2's reference to "rebellion and other crimes" has been invoked as a constitutional ground for felony disenfranchisement. The fifth section gives Congress enforcement power.

The amendment's first section includes several clauses: the Citizenship Clause, Privileges or Immunities Clause, Due Process Clause, and Equal Protection Clause. The Citizenship Clause provides a broad definition of citizenship, overruling the Supreme Court's decision in Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857), which had held that Americans descended from African slaves could not be citizens of the United States. The Privileges or Immunities Clause has been interpreted in such a way that it does very little.

The Due Process Clause prohibits state and local government officials from depriving persons of life, liberty, or property without legislative authorization. This clause has also been used by the federal judiciary to make most of the Bill of Rights applicable to the states, as well as to recognize substantive and procedural requirements that state laws must satisfy.

The Equal Protection Clause requires each state to provide equal protection under the law to all people within its jurisdiction. This clause was the basis for Brown v. Board of Education (1954), the Supreme Court decision that precipitated the dismantling of racial segregation, and for many other decisions rejecting irrational or unnecessary discrimination against people belonging to various groups.


***BERNIE SANDERS Uncovers 1980 Koch Agenda- "What Do the Koch Brothers Want?"

What else do the Koch brothers want?

In 1980, David Koch ran as the Libertarian Party's vice-presidential candidate in 1980.

Let's take a look at the 1980 Libertarian Party platform.

Here are just a few excerpts of the Libertarian Party platform that David Koch ran on in 1980:

We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission.

We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.

We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.

We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.

We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.

We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.

We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.

We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.

As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.

We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.

We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended.

We condemn compulsory education laws and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.

We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.

We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.

We support abolition of the Department of Energy.

We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.

We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.

We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.

We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.

We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.

We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.

We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and aid to the poorprograms. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.

We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.

We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.

We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.

We support the repeal of all state usury laws.

In other words, the agenda of the Koch brothers is not only to defund Obamacare. The agenda of the Koch brothers is to repeal every major piece of legislation that has been signed into law over the past 80 years that has protected the middle class, the elderly, the children, the sick, and the most vulnerable in this country...

Tomorrow it will be Social Security, ending Medicare as we know it, repealing the minimum wage. It seems to me that the Koch brothers will not be content until they get everything they believe they are entitled to.

Our great nation can no longer be hijacked by right-wing billionaires like the Koch brothers.

For the sake of our children and our grandchildren, for the sake of our economy, we have got to let democracy prevail.




People must ponder the implications of every item on that agenda that has been working on us for over 30 years. They have, or are close to, achieving all of them. We are at a tipping point. It is no time to attack each other, unless these goals don't mater to you.

If you look into the finances of the conspiracy pundits who scream about the government listening and reading email, or whatever outrage du jour is being presented, you can smell the stench of Koch above. They peddle anti-science for the masses, too.

Alex Jones and the rest say they are non-partisan but 'more Libertarian than anything else' as they spew old Bircher conspiracies. It's been an impressive psychological operation. Think the Koch brothers couldn't afford to fund this through the Tea Party, GOP, AFP, FreedomWorks, etc.?

Ever wonder where those slick production values for their films come from, with their 24/7/365 a year in multiple venues to get their message out, and where they get their money?

Not from the poor or nickel and dime contributors. They're never punished like real whistleblowers, who, BTW, are often out of the public eye and are not compensated. It's a con.

Note: The use of pronouns does not imply I am speaking to the OP author, DU posters or DU at large.


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YoungDemCA Apr 2015 OP
riversedge Apr 2015 #1
libdem4life Apr 2015 #2
JDPriestly Apr 2015 #3
LineNew Reply If this fails, something fatal to democracy will happen.
freshwest Apr 2015 #4
dmr Apr 2015 #5
mairica Sep 2020 #6
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