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Latin America
In reply to the discussion: Maduro calls Venezuela opposition "heirs of Hitler" [View all]reorg
(3,317 posts)119. Would you care to explain how you reach these numbers?
I am personally not all that scandalized by subsidies among allied countries. In Germany, where I live, the states with higher tax revenue subsidize those with lower income to the tune of up to 3.4 billion Euros per year (Saxony, with 4 million inhabitants) - without any compensation. The only benefit I have as tax payer in one of the rich states is the satisfaction I may feel that Germans in the poorer states have access to the same quality of state services than I have.
However, I am sceptical about the numbers you are citing. According to Wikipedia, they are false (like so many other claims of yours we have debunked so far):
In October 2000, Chávez and Castro signed the Convenio Integral de Cooperación under which Venezuela will send 53,000-barrel (8,400 m3) per day of oil to Cuba and will receive technical support and in the fields of education, health care, sports, and science and technology.[17] In February 2005, Venezuela increased its discounted oil shipments to Cuba to 90,000-barrel (14,000 m3) per day[1] which represents less than 3.5% of Venezuela's total oil production. But for Cuba, 90,000 bbl/d (14,000 m3/d) is of high value. Much of this oil obtained from Venezuela is subsidized. According to 2005 estimates, Venezuela is providing Cuba nearly 20,000 bbl/d (3,200 m3/d) to 26,000 bbl/d (4,100 m3/d) of oil free of cost, for a total "gift" of $68 billion until 2020.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba%E2%80%93Venezuela_relations#Oil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba%E2%80%93Venezuela_relations#Oil
This is what the convention says:
Artículo III
La República Bolivariana de Venezuela se compromete a proveer a la República de Cuba a solicitud de ésta y como parte de este Convenio Integral de Cooperación, bienes y servicios que comprenden asistencia y asesorías técnicas provenientes de entes públicos y privados, así como el suministro de crudos y derivados de petróleo, hasta por un total de cincuenta y tres mil (53.000) barriles diarios. Estos volúmenes serán presentados en un programa de nominaciones, de carácter trimestral y anualizado por las empresas CUPET y CUBAMETALES a PDVSA en las cantidades y condiciones que se establecerán anualmente entre Las Partes, tomando como referencia las bases del Acuerdo Energético de Cooperación de Caracas.
Las ventas ser realizarán bajo los contratos tipo de PDVSA en condiciones CIF para cada uno de estos tipos de crudo y derivados.
Los precios serán determinados por el mercado en base a las fórmulas aplicables.
Las ventas serán sobre las bases de un esquema de financiamiento mixto de corto y largo plazo, utilizándose las escalas aplicables al Acuerdo Energético de Caracas, que es la siguiente:
Precio promedio de realización/venta por barril de crudo en dólares estadounidenses Ajuste %
> =15 5
> = 20 10
> =22 15
> = 24 20
> = 30 25
La anterior fórmula será aplicada al resto de los combustibles y lubricantes.
Todo lo relativo al financiamiento de corto y largo plazo, se regirá de conformidad con los dispuesto en el Anexo II que se entenderá como parte integrante de este Convenio.
Artículo IV
Disposición Especial
La República de Cuba ofrece gratuitamente a la República Bolivariana de Venezuela los servicios médicos, especialistas y técnicos de la salud para prestar servicios en lugares donde no se disponga de ese personal. Los médicos especialistas y técnicos cubanos en la prestación de sus servicios en la República Bolivariana de Venezuela ofrecerán gratuitamente entrenamiento al personal venezolano de diversos niveles que las autoridades soliciten.
La parte venezolana cubrirá los gastos de alojamiento, alimentación, transportación interna.
El gobierno de Cuba garantizará a todos los galenos y demás técnicos sus salarios y la atención adecuada a los respectivos familiares en la Isla.
http://www.minpal.gob.ve/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=551&Itemid=4
La República Bolivariana de Venezuela se compromete a proveer a la República de Cuba a solicitud de ésta y como parte de este Convenio Integral de Cooperación, bienes y servicios que comprenden asistencia y asesorías técnicas provenientes de entes públicos y privados, así como el suministro de crudos y derivados de petróleo, hasta por un total de cincuenta y tres mil (53.000) barriles diarios. Estos volúmenes serán presentados en un programa de nominaciones, de carácter trimestral y anualizado por las empresas CUPET y CUBAMETALES a PDVSA en las cantidades y condiciones que se establecerán anualmente entre Las Partes, tomando como referencia las bases del Acuerdo Energético de Cooperación de Caracas.
Las ventas ser realizarán bajo los contratos tipo de PDVSA en condiciones CIF para cada uno de estos tipos de crudo y derivados.
Los precios serán determinados por el mercado en base a las fórmulas aplicables.
Las ventas serán sobre las bases de un esquema de financiamiento mixto de corto y largo plazo, utilizándose las escalas aplicables al Acuerdo Energético de Caracas, que es la siguiente:
Precio promedio de realización/venta por barril de crudo en dólares estadounidenses Ajuste %
> =15 5
> = 20 10
> =22 15
> = 24 20
> = 30 25
La anterior fórmula será aplicada al resto de los combustibles y lubricantes.
Todo lo relativo al financiamiento de corto y largo plazo, se regirá de conformidad con los dispuesto en el Anexo II que se entenderá como parte integrante de este Convenio.
Artículo IV
Disposición Especial
La República de Cuba ofrece gratuitamente a la República Bolivariana de Venezuela los servicios médicos, especialistas y técnicos de la salud para prestar servicios en lugares donde no se disponga de ese personal. Los médicos especialistas y técnicos cubanos en la prestación de sus servicios en la República Bolivariana de Venezuela ofrecerán gratuitamente entrenamiento al personal venezolano de diversos niveles que las autoridades soliciten.
La parte venezolana cubrirá los gastos de alojamiento, alimentación, transportación interna.
El gobierno de Cuba garantizará a todos los galenos y demás técnicos sus salarios y la atención adecuada a los respectivos familiares en la Isla.
http://www.minpal.gob.ve/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=551&Itemid=4
So, Venezuela actually provides a limited amount of oil at a 25% discount.
Assuming a price of US$100 per barrel, a 25% discount for up to 90,000 barrel per day is equal to US$2,250,000 per day or some $821 million per year.
At current oil prices, the number of 8 billion dollars in total mentioned in the Wikipedia quote above is reached within ten years or so.
This "gift", however, as is commonly known, is not free of charge since Cuba provides doctors and services in exchange:
In return for Venezuelan oil, Cuba is sending approximately 30,000 to 50,000 technical personnel to Venezuela, including physicians, sport coaches, teachers, and arts instructors who offer social services, often in poverty-stricken regions. Under the programme Convenio de Atención a Pacientes implemented in 2000, Venezuela send patients and their relatives for medical treatment in Cuba where the Government of Venezuela pays the transportation costs, and Cuba bears all other expenses.[6]
In April 2005, the two countries signed an agreement to increase the number of healthcare workers in Venezuela to 30,000 and initiated health programs which included establishment of 1,000 free medical centers, training of 50,000 medical personnel, and surgical treatment for approximately 100,000 Venezuelans in Cuba. Cuba also offered to train an additional 40,000 Venezuelan physicians. Meanwhile the oil shipment to Cuba is increased to 90,000 barrels (14,000 m3) per day.[17] In 2005 alone, 50,000 Venezuelans went to Cuba for free eye treatment.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba%E2%80%93Venezuela_relations#Health_care
In April 2005, the two countries signed an agreement to increase the number of healthcare workers in Venezuela to 30,000 and initiated health programs which included establishment of 1,000 free medical centers, training of 50,000 medical personnel, and surgical treatment for approximately 100,000 Venezuelans in Cuba. Cuba also offered to train an additional 40,000 Venezuelan physicians. Meanwhile the oil shipment to Cuba is increased to 90,000 barrels (14,000 m3) per day.[17] In 2005 alone, 50,000 Venezuelans went to Cuba for free eye treatment.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba%E2%80%93Venezuela_relations#Health_care
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We know they are heirs of El Caracazo massacre, ordered by their beloved Perez,
Judi Lynn
Mar 2013
#1
Your identification with Washington's bullies forces you to spin it that way. n/t
Judi Lynn
Mar 2013
#25
The attempt to mangle it supports the filthy propaganda the US has been using
Judi Lynn
Mar 2013
#23
Don't bother. Pearls before swine... Though others might read it and think... There is always that.
idwiyo
Mar 2013
#36
I AM A NATIVE SPANISH SPEAKER. Did you even WATCH the video in the article?
Marksman_91
Mar 2013
#52
Native English speakers hear, right-wingers, lie because they have no consciences.
Judi Lynn
Mar 2013
#59
I speak spanish, and it is quite clear what he said. I posted a video in this thread that
MADem
Mar 2013
#114
No way to move food to their stores, people to hospitals, to work, to school,
Judi Lynn
Mar 2013
#77
So Venezuela has to take care of Cuba now as if they were some kind of son we owe everything to?
Marksman_91
Mar 2013
#92
So why has Venezuela been involved in discounted oil trade throughout Central America
Judi Lynn
Mar 2013
#109
Pick up an enemy, preferably foreigner. Accuse them of covertly controlling the state government,
idwiyo
Mar 2013
#19
COMMIE! And it's properly spelled DemoncRAT, in RW land. Don't they teach you anything?
idwiyo
Mar 2013
#34
I am British and I already said I am a commie. Why should I lie and say I am a Democrat?
idwiyo
Mar 2013
#37
I honestly don't get it. My avatar, my sigline should be dead give away... And yet...
idwiyo
Mar 2013
#39
Don't forget to show up drunk, and crazy, like the peculiar Senator Joe McCarthy,
Judi Lynn
Mar 2013
#30
Awwwww, Googliy Bear pouting again... It's OK Squigly Boo, don't be sad. Am sure your Momma
idwiyo
Mar 2013
#40
AI program can't compute a real living breathing Commie and goes into infinite loop?
idwiyo
Mar 2013
#46
Yes, textbook RW tactic to fabricate "facts" and insist they are "truth". Glad you agree.
idwiyo
Mar 2013
#58
Thank you for your opinion. I read through it and will save it in "other people' opinions..." folder
idwiyo
Mar 2013
#133
The key bit wasn't what I said--it's what's on the video. Start at the 2 minute mark
MADem
Mar 2013
#136
That wasn't what I am talking about. My reference was to your opinion about my posts.
idwiyo
Mar 2013
#141
When you insult people--as you do--why are you surprised when they return your attentions in kind?
MADem
Mar 2013
#142
You did prove my point. You know damn well what "wanker" also stands for. And yet you decided
idwiyo
Mar 2013
#144
Unfortunately one of the meanings of this slur is a homophobic one. Not a common meaning but
idwiyo
Mar 2013
#152
I've been hearing the word for years, and never once have I heard it used in that context. Not once.
MADem
Mar 2013
#153
Googly Bear, you sound like someone who is very fond of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
idwiyo
Mar 2013
#63
IF Venezuelans can't recall the ads they saw only a few months ago around the clock,
Judi Lynn
Mar 2013
#91
Thank you, you explained it much better than I would. The opposition rhetoric towards Cuba
idwiyo
Mar 2013
#169
The rhetoric coming from Capriles camp against Cuba is almost to boot the same rhetoric
idwiyo
Mar 2013
#170
Quick, goal posts move! And here is an example of the rhetoric, from a supporter right here on DU:
idwiyo
Apr 2013
#185
Start by reading about his political affiliations. Wiki is a good place to start for that one.
idwiyo
Mar 2013
#16
I'd like for YOU to make the comparisons, not tell someone to come up with their own conclusions
Marksman_91
Mar 2013
#18
I highly doubt all 7 million were compared to Hitler. Just selected few at the head, it seems.
idwiyo
Mar 2013
#21
You're unaware of the great percentage of votes they openly recount unlike those here?
Judi Lynn
Mar 2013
#84
So a lot of US Americans assumed this stuff ended when the CIA cocaine uncovered by Iran/Contra
Judi Lynn
Mar 2013
#111
It's a simple truth. Capriles would have been gone along with the other a-holes. n/t
Judi Lynn
Mar 2013
#112
It's a shame you found a way to get him eliminated. He spoke the truth, had facts.
Judi Lynn
Mar 2013
#128
More importantly they pointed to a treasure trove of information that I forgot about.
idwiyo
Mar 2013
#132
By getting every one of Bezrodny's posts deleted, he was able to destroy evidence
Judi Lynn
Mar 2013
#134
Just stop with this nonsense of pretending that the opposition to PSUV has any moral ground...
ocpagu
Mar 2013
#87
Glad to see the article mentioned the fact that other Venezuelan Presidents actually did block
Judi Lynn
Mar 2013
#113
It's a shame a really great new poster was able to get banned by just one "DU'er" here last night,
Judi Lynn
Mar 2013
#135
Would depend on who was on the MIR Team. As we know, right-wingers are NOT welcome
Judi Lynn
Mar 2013
#175
It was a shock to everyone who saw someone got him zapped, as we had read his posts.
Judi Lynn
Mar 2013
#176
I really don't remember seeing any toxic language or uncivic behavior by the poster.
ocpagu
Apr 2013
#181
I was hoping someone would mention that. You don't have to know exactly what was said
Judi Lynn
Apr 2013
#183
Since the poster who got him removed fixed it so ALL his words were deleted,
Judi Lynn
Apr 2013
#184
Judi, if you simply cannot stand this "right-wing" behavior of banning users for being offensive...
Marksman_91
Apr 2013
#187