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joshcryer

(62,536 posts)
111. The thing about the Carter report...
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 04:24 AM
Apr 2013

They highlighted a lot of stuff I pointed out here basically every problem I had with the elections, they noted. I got called a right winger at the time for noting them (I really wish kicking a post would bring it to the top but the archive doesn't work that way, or I'd prove all the slanders wrong). Capriles should've rightly complained about those issues at the time but he knew complaining would do no good. I frankly wish he did complain at the time because not making complaints in one election and making them in another is odious to the core. I understand why they didn't, though. Had Capriles won this time he could've pulled a Maduro and not wanted a recount or said "The system is perfect! It's unassailable!" But that would've been a lie, of course! No system is "best in the world"! In theory, if all constraints are met, yes, Venezuela's voting system is the best electronic system in the world (but I prefer paper ballots and will always consider them superior, like most other Latin American states).

In any event, the system is not "completely computerized." There are paper ballots for every single vote that is made. After they vote they do a "hot audit" of 54% of the votes, that is, they take the printout from the machine and compare it to a random sampling of the votes. I have been on record saying this is the best way to ever do electronic voting (it is simply impossible to game such a system if the hot audit is observed completely). However, it only works if you have observers there to look at the tally from the machine printout (called actas, which literally means "tally sheet" in Spanish). Otherwise the system can be gamed, trivially. It is, after all, an electronic voting system, where votes are virtual, and a flip of a bit can be coded without effort.

The Capriles camp alleged that they didn't have actas from polling stations representing 700k votes. I believe them when they say that. They could be lying, and if they are, I'd be the first to condemn it. But it makes no sense for them to make such a claim without there being proof of it (the proof being unsigned actas). And the PSUV didn't post the tally sheets (actas) to their website after saying they would which only leads me to believe it further. See, when you do the hot audit of 54% of the votes observers from both sides sign the tally sheets. Basically saying, "I agree that this tally sheet matches the hot audit of 54% of the votes." An unsigned tally sheet would be absolute proof that a given observer wasn't there to sign it (on either side).

Now, why they didn't have observers? They claim that they were kicked out. That I can believe to an extent because of the chavista polarization that permeates their politics. If I'm an opposition member and I want to observe something, they see me wearing colors of the opposition, one might not trust me to be there (not that it would matter since I'm simply observing). They might think I'm there to cause trouble or to claim fraud or to just be polarizing. On the other hand, it could've simply been a complete fail on the part of the campaign, that is, they didn't have volunteers to go into those polling stations and observe the hot audit.

Regardless, if the hot audit is not observed, the veracity of the votes can legitimately be called into question. Which is what Capriles did. Now, Capriles, being a crazy fucker, decided to double and triple down and claim illegitimacy of the President and at one point said he won if certain constraints were met (counting foreign votes and the implication of annulling votes in voting stations where observers weren't there; likely majority chavista polling stations).

I know what you're thinking. Why not just purposefully not allow observers in a polling station and then afterwards claim fraud. That may have happened! And that is why electronic voting is a farce, because it does allow such a thing to happen! And it allows crazy fuckers like Capriles to claim fraud in said event, because, logically, philosophically, and rationally, said electronic voting machines can't be trusted if all parties don't sign off on the tally sheets. That's why non-paper electronic voting machines are bullshit. In fact, in some areas (in the USA) they don't even have a VVAT (paper trail verification) for the machines, and when races are close? The recount is simply looking at what the machines say, there's no proof one way or another, in the form of humans actually printing out or signing a ballot.

Anyway, Capriles won Miranda against Maduro by almost 100k votes, which is a lot better showing than when he ran for governor where he won by I think 30k or so (back in Dec. of 2012). A recall would be fascinating there for me because it'd be interesting to see whether his crazy vote counting tactic paid off or was a disaster. At the bare minimum by counting the votes Maduro and the chavistas have diffused the situation.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

" this is his own operation... to keep the interest of his voters" "he has to make a scandal" Catherina Apr 2013 #1
More than half a dozen dead... ocpagu Apr 2013 #3
You do realize if he goes to jail a whole lot more will die, right? joshcryer Apr 2013 #4
OK ,to big to Jail, look forward..... bahrbearian Apr 2013 #26
Nope, that poster has been posting about political violence... joshcryer Apr 2013 #47
There's nothing false about this narrative. ocpagu Apr 2013 #65
Well, maybe you'll get your wish. joshcryer Apr 2013 #66
What do you defend? ocpagu Apr 2013 #69
The votes. joshcryer Apr 2013 #77
Proabably the same thing would have happened if Bush & Cheney had been arrested Doctor_J Apr 2013 #28
Who's going to apologize to her that her grandson was shot in the head for a "scandal"? Catherina Apr 2013 #8
Who's going to apologize for the nearly 200k dead Venezuelans since 2000? joshcryer Apr 2013 #11
Wow. You've taken the low road there. Warren Stupidity Apr 2013 #15
Unbelievable, the 'logic' to defend the indefensible, isn't it? sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #52
They have been planning this for a long time. ocpagu Apr 2013 #68
It definitely seems that way. It has the unsettling feeling of a return to the old sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #72
They've been planning for the CNE to be corrupt and to call it out? joshcryer Apr 2013 #75
Nope. ocpagu Apr 2013 #79
Sure. But Maduro made it actually viable. joshcryer Apr 2013 #95
epic fucking fail frylock Apr 2013 #67
No way to have prevented it. Ken Burch Apr 2013 #103
Hiring cops wasn't the problem. joshcryer Apr 2013 #106
Thanks for posting this Coyotl Apr 2013 #35
This video... ocpagu Apr 2013 #2
Lua confirms one thing, Capriles is crazy. joshcryer Apr 2013 #5
I'm beyond disgusted. Catherina Apr 2013 #6
Maduro is stupid as long as he doesn't count the votes. joshcryer Apr 2013 #7
Since Capriles seems to already know he has lost - what is the point of a recount? djean111 Apr 2013 #12
The opposition has dealt with "irregularities" for years. joshcryer Apr 2013 #13
BTW, I did not call Maduro crazy, I called Capriles crazy. joshcryer Apr 2013 #19
They've been exposed, now watch the twisted, pretzel logic we will hear from the right wing sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #81
An audit was already made ocpagu Apr 2013 #88
That's not the damn allegation. joshcryer Apr 2013 #93
not a single one of those fake allegations can be proven reorg Apr 2013 #101
did he come to you as a little bird? Bacchus4.0 Apr 2013 #9
Only reconfirming what a total jerk you are. Catherina Apr 2013 #10
+1000! Puglover Apr 2013 #17
adios mi pajarita comemierda n/t Bacchus4.0 Apr 2013 #27
"Goodbye my bow tie eating grin" ? bahrbearian Apr 2013 #29
lol, whatever you say n/t Bacchus4.0 Apr 2013 #31
Care to translate to English? Come on, you are not afraid, are you? idwiyo Apr 2013 #42
Shit-eating bird Coyotl Apr 2013 #43
Thank you. I wonder if the poster themselves would like to translate, instead of hiding. idwiyo Apr 2013 #48
shit eater would be the literal translation but not the meaning of the expression itself n/t Bacchus4.0 Apr 2013 #51
Bullshit. But it's clear you were looking in the mirror when you said it. n/t Catherina Apr 2013 #73
^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^ +1000000000000000 Coyotl Apr 2013 #36
Excellent comment, Catherina. I am happy though to see Caprilles finally exposed for what he is. sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #82
Was there ever any doubt? Catherina Apr 2013 #87
How i wish I could recommend this post. hifiguy Apr 2013 #91
Heh joshcryer Apr 2013 #14
The sicko interventionists are grumpy this morning. Very sad. byeya Apr 2013 #16
Pathetic. Starry Messenger Apr 2013 #18
I never asked you, but do you think fraud allegations should be looked at by CNE? joshcryer Apr 2013 #20
Does one take an Orly Taitz seriously? Starry Messenger Apr 2013 #22
Excellent analogy Doctor_J Apr 2013 #25
Capriles didn't say that. joshcryer Apr 2013 #45
Orly Taitz's objections were answered. joshcryer Apr 2013 #44
"Birther' leader Orly Taitz ordered by Supreme Court to pay $20,000 fine for 'frivolous' lawsuit" Zorra Apr 2013 #54
If the allegations are investigated and proven to have been false... joshcryer Apr 2013 #55
The fact is, most of us know that corporatists are always going to use any means possible Zorra Apr 2013 #63
Well, I consider chavismo right wing. joshcryer Apr 2013 #71
Really? Right wing? ocpagu Apr 2013 #90
Going in circles. joshcryer Apr 2013 #92
There's a lot of things I wish too Josh. No need to get personal. Starry Messenger Apr 2013 #98
I thought it was unfair to compare to Orly Taitz. joshcryer Apr 2013 #99
Well, that's what happens when you ask me a question before I have coffee at 6 am. Starry Messenger Apr 2013 #100
Well, the audits are being done, so my grievences end there. joshcryer Apr 2013 #107
I don't think it was ever in doubt that the vote would be audited. Starry Messenger Apr 2013 #108
The level of the audit was always in question. joshcryer Apr 2013 #109
Unless I missed something (perfectly possible) Starry Messenger Apr 2013 #110
The thing about the Carter report... joshcryer Apr 2013 #111
+1 ! idwiyo Apr 2013 #50
Lol, that's a perfect analogy. Orly Taitz. sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #89
I think all voter fraud allegations should handled by the USSC. bahrbearian Apr 2013 #30
With a little help from the CIA I am sure. zeemike Apr 2013 #23
We shouldn't be surprised. Capriles is basically a Ven version of the Koch brothers Exultant Democracy Apr 2013 #21
Rove is advising the fascists down there Doctor_J Apr 2013 #24
That figures. limpyhobbler Apr 2013 #104
Sick freaks. I hope they're jailed for the rest of their lives. polly7 Apr 2013 #32
thanks, just further proof they are spying on Capriles Bacchus4.0 Apr 2013 #33
I had it on good authority that political spying was OK on these forums. joshcryer Apr 2013 #46
And Secretary of State John Kerry is on this bandwagon because ??? Coyotl Apr 2013 #34
Kerry inherited Clinton's policies flamingdem Apr 2013 #37
I should add: knows little and cares even less nt flamingdem Apr 2013 #39
He may have learned a lot from his wife, Teresa, who inherited her former husbands Heinz Ketchup. Judi Lynn Apr 2013 #96
Oh no! Another family tie situation flamingdem Apr 2013 #97
Just imagine the uproar naaman fletcher Apr 2013 #38
Okay but what do you think about the tactics used by Capriles? nt flamingdem Apr 2013 #40
I don't like them at all naaman fletcher Apr 2013 #41
I'm supportive of the count the vote tactic. joshcryer Apr 2013 #57
They are stirring the cauldron of violence, hoping it will boil over. Coyotl Apr 2013 #49
Great pic. ocpagu Apr 2013 #84
a little birdie came to Capriles and said reorg Apr 2013 #53
Yes, Capriles is exposing the stuff the Carter Center found. joshcryer Apr 2013 #56
Kicked, Recommended, Copied because I need this in my journal. Catherina Apr 2013 #58
Wonderful information, reorg. ocpagu Apr 2013 #80
Imagine if Romney supporters rioted.... Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2013 #59
That is incorrect. joshcryer Apr 2013 #60
Kind of tired of the choice being presented as either Stalin or Hitler... Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2013 #61
I have never presented that. joshcryer Apr 2013 #64
Our MEDIA does that. To them it's all about the leader, not the cause.... Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2013 #70
No, our media does not do that. joshcryer Apr 2013 #74
You know as well as I do most people in Central and South America don't participate... Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2013 #78
We're talking about an exposed 'fraud'. That fraud is committed by PEOPLE necessitates sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #85
They will in the FORMAL REQUEST. joshcryer Apr 2013 #94
Very interesting. Arctic Dave Apr 2013 #62
Precisely n/t Catherina Apr 2013 #76
Venezuelan right wingers are openly more violent than American ones. Dawson Leery Apr 2013 #83
Well, you have to wonder who is instigating the violence. There is long history of that kind of sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #86
Looks like Capriles mask fell off. pa28 Apr 2013 #102
Some right wing oligarchies just can't take a hint. limpyhobbler Apr 2013 #105
Kick for the priceless arrogance of the Henrique Capriles n/t Catherina Apr 2013 #112
Lol, what a douche. Daniel537 Apr 2013 #113
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