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Flatulo

(5,005 posts)
28. How is the value of a thing determined? At the simplest level, it is the cost of the labor,
Mon May 13, 2013, 07:01 PM
May 2013

materials, marketing and distribution, plus a profit for the producer for his troubles. If the product has value added beyond that, such as cachet (think Apple stuff) and the market is willing to support the price, then the price will rise. If people cannot afford it or simply don't see the value, then they won't buy it and the price will fall, or a competitor will come along and make a comparable product for less.

I believe you're calling this manipulation, but it's how markets work.

Some items, like medicine, are more difficult to price. It may cost $2b to produce a unique new pharmaceutical that would never be sold in sufficient quantities to recover the R&D cost, yet the producer can't sell any at $5000 per tablet. What do they do then? I believe this is a special case, and the government may be justified in granting subsidies to the manufacturer to help them bring it to market.

But in commodities like energy and food staples, there are plenty of people who know how to raise cattle or poultry or grow grain or extract oil, so market forces tend to work. Now if a cartel forms for the purpose of fixing prices (like OPEC), then that is what I would call manipulation, because there is usually no competition outside of the cartel.

You seem to be in denial of the graphs linked above explaining supply and demand. May I ask what you see to be the flaw in the model? I mean, one can ignore it, turn all production over to the state and let them operate at a loss in perpetuity, but history has shown us that centrally controlled economies have chronic shortages. Always.


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Predictable naaman fletcher May 2013 #1
he's proposing that the military be used now to produce food Bacchus4.0 May 2013 #7
This place well collapse before year end. nt. naaman fletcher May 2013 #8
well, at least they are getting Chinese satellites so they can watch the collapse live n/t Bacchus4.0 May 2013 #11
Expropriate! Flatulo May 2013 #2
So he's blaming the scarcity on an enterprise that is actually producing to its fullest? Marksman_91 May 2013 #3
thats why he isn't going to expropriate Polar. The previous businesses expropriated Bacchus4.0 May 2013 #4
As the government tries ever harder to flout the laws of supply and demand, and fails ever Flatulo May 2013 #5
amen n/t Bacchus4.0 May 2013 #6
Fanatics of any ideology are always detrimental to society Marksman_91 May 2013 #9
LOL ocpagu May 2013 #10
Now you're the one who's thinking binary. Flatulo May 2013 #13
Even if I accept everything you say here is true: naaman fletcher May 2013 #14
It's funny how people always remember to blame governments for that... ocpagu May 2013 #15
That's a different story naaman fletcher May 2013 #16
Nope. ocpagu May 2013 #17
I agree with you totally naaman fletcher May 2013 #18
right, he's trying to change the subject. We are talking about shortages Bacchus4.0 May 2013 #19
How come "that has nothing to do with the fact that price controls cause shortages"? ocpagu May 2013 #20
The objective has nothing to do with it naaman fletcher May 2013 #21
Oh, my... Flatulo May 2013 #23
Oh, so you believe anyone who's willing to make money is allowed to speculate and manipulate prices? ocpagu May 2013 #24
How is the value of a thing determined? At the simplest level, it is the cost of the labor, Flatulo May 2013 #28
Are you claiming that commodities traders are causing shortages in VZ? Are they causing Flatulo May 2013 #22
They are manipulating prices... ocpagu May 2013 #25
So, naaman fletcher May 2013 #26
Exactly my thoughts. Flatulo May 2013 #27
They don't care about the poor and it gives them talking points. joshcryer May 2013 #29
Polar rejects accusations that production has been reduced (Maduro lie #819,258) Bacchus4.0 May 2013 #12
Elías Jaua asks Polar to make a small "sacrifice" and produce at a loss to guarantee food supplies Marksman_91 May 2013 #30
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