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Demeter

(85,373 posts)
101. This slump won’t end until 2031 / The Long Depression: The Slump of 2008-2031 by Matthew Lynn
Mon Dec 19, 2011, 03:44 PM
Dec 2011
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-slump-wont-end-until-2031-2011-12-14?dist=countdown

In retrospect, it wasn’t hard to see that the markets were becoming dangerously unstable. Germany had just adopted a new monetary system, and Europe was being flooded with cheap German money. Greece had signed up to a monetary union with Italy and France but was struggling to hold it together. Financial markets had been deregulated. New technologies were transforming production and communications, allowing money to move across borders at lightening speed. And a massive new industrial power was flooding the world with cheap manufactured goods, blowing apart old industries.

When it all fell apart in an almighty crash, it was only to be expected.

A prophesy for London, New York or Berlin in 2012? Not exactly. It is a description of Vienna in 1873. In that year, in one of the great crashes of all time, the Austrian markets triggered collapses across Europe, swiftly followed by an equally spectacular collapse in New York. It was the start of what economic historians call the Long Depression, a prolonged period of volatility, unemployment and slumps that lasted an epic 23 years, only coming to an end in 1896.

I have been researching that episode for my new e-book ”The Long Depression: The Slump of 2008 to 2031.” The parallels with our own time are fascinating. German unification, and the adoption of the gold standard, had led to a boom in that country, and cheap German money had flooded Europe. Greece had just joined the Latin Currency Union, an ill-fated attempt to merge currencies across Europe. Banking had been deregulated, which was partly why so much German money was invested on the Vienna bourse. The telegraph created instant communications, allowing the European crash to spread to New York. The U.S. was industrializing, transforming the global economy as much as China has transformed the present era’s economy in the past decade...All those factors came together to create an almighty bubble, followed by an even worse crash. The slump that followed — although it is hard to measure these things precisely — lasted more than two decades. If the slump following the crash of 2008 is anything like that one, then this one is going to last until 2031...True, historical parallels are never precise. We won’t replay the Long Depression of 1873 to 1896 exactly, nor will this slump necessarily last as long. It is, however, a far more instructive episode than the Great Depression of the 1930s. And there are five key lessons we should learn from it....First, depressions can last a very long time, and when their origins are in a debt bubble they should be measured in decades not years. For a century or more, depressions have been relatively short, sharp episodes. They are like having a tooth pulled, rather than a chronic sickness — painful, but over quite quickly. But it doesn’t have to be that way. In the U.K., for example, this is already the longest recession since records began — in the sense that output is still below its 2008 peak. It is more enduring than the depression of the 1930s. That is true of many other countries, as well. If, as seems likely, Europe, and perhaps the U.S., slips back into recession in 2012, it will be clear to everyone we are witnessing something far longer than the conventional economic textbooks allow for...Second, this depression is structural. The Long Depression of the 19th century had its roots in financial speculation, technological change, and the arrival of a massive new player in the global economy. Our current depression likewise has its roots in three huge crises coming together at the same time. We have a debt bubble that had been building up over three decade and which burst spectacularly in 2008. The dollar is in long-term decline as a reserve currency, and as the anchor for the global monetary system, but there is still not much sign of what will replace it. And in the euro, the biggest single economic bloc has created the most dysfunctional monetary system in human history, threatening financial collapses on an unprecedented scale. Think of it as the world economy’s suffering a heart attack, then a stroke, then getting picked up by an ambulance that crashes on the way to the hospital — it is hardly surprising the patient isn’t in good shape...Three, it’s uneven. The Long Depression of the 19th century was a sustained period of lower growth compared with what came before and what came afterward. Germany, for example, grew 4.3% annually between 1850 and 1873 and then at 4.1% between 1896 and 1913. But in the Long Depression years, it only managed a growth rate of just over 2% a year. It was similar in other countries. The markets remained volatile, with repeated booms and busts, regularly collapsing back into recession. They did grow occasionally, just as Japan has sometimes grown in what is now its second decade of slump. But the growth is never sustained...Four, good things are still happening. It isn’t all doom and gloom. In the Long Depression, some countries were largely unscathed. New technologies and industries were being created. The telephone was invented, and the foundations of new industries based on the petrol engine and electricity were put into place. The people who got it right still made huge fortunes, and the workers in the right industries prospered. Overall, however, times were hard. And you had to position yourself carefully...Five, it won’t be fixed easily. The parallel with the 1930s is dangerous, because it has convinced bankers and policy makers that if you can just pump up demand, everything will be OK. It won’t.

Sure, demand is important — there is no point in letting it collapse. But this won’t be over until all three structural problems get fixed. Debt needs to be paid down to manageable levels, a new reserve currency needs to be created, and the euro needs to be put out of its misery. None of these are simple tasks, and none will be done quickly. The global economy will eventually get back to normal growth. But the truth is, it is going to be a long, hard haul — and a lot of work needs to be done it get back on track.

*******************************************************

Matthew Lynn is chief executive of Strategy Economics, a London-based consultancy. His latest book ‘The Long Depression: The Slump of 2008-2031’ is published by Endeavour Press.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Reports this week. Hugin Dec 2011 #1
Why The European Debt Crisis Might Actually Be Over... Ghost Dog Dec 2011 #2
Thanks again for the xpost in LBN, Ghost Dog. Hugin Dec 2011 #3
The Eurozone’s policy breakthrough? Ghost Dog Dec 2011 #6
I'm much more interested in saving people than institutions Demeter Dec 2011 #26
Would you rather invest in Italy, or in Facebook? (points of view) Ghost Dog Dec 2011 #7
As long as nations borrow from banks, instead of generating their own means of exchange Demeter Dec 2011 #39
I nearly didn't make it this morning due to a local power cut... Ghost Dog Dec 2011 #11
what are they doing? nt xchrom Dec 2011 #12
As much as possible on as little as possible, I guess. Ghost Dog Dec 2011 #47
well damn. so does that involve the local electric company xchrom Dec 2011 #48
At the local council it's hookups, maintenance etc. Ghost Dog Dec 2011 #50
i know you're not in the u.s. -- but i don't know exactly where you are xchrom Dec 2011 #51
Azores or Canaries, I think Demeter Dec 2011 #58
fabulous -- i would love to visit the azores.nt xchrom Dec 2011 #75
Canary Island (when we stop singing, get out of the pit!) Ghost Dog Dec 2011 #85
Eurozone to pursue crisis action, Draghi inscrutable Ghost Dog Dec 2011 #5
or maybe not: IMF Loans Likely To Fall Short Of €200 Expected As UK Pulls Rescue Funding Roland99 Dec 2011 #31
or maybe so! Fed May Inject Over $1 Trillion To Bail Out Europe Roland99 Dec 2011 #34
Those SOBs! Demeter Dec 2011 #59
All that's happened is the Big Money went on Xmas break Demeter Dec 2011 #38
See post below for the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come Demeter Dec 2011 #90
Asian Stocks Drop On EU Concerns, Kim's Death Ghost Dog Dec 2011 #4
Kim died early Saturday morning from fatigue? heart attack? something else??? DemReadingDU Dec 2011 #8
Timely reporting compared to the U$A Po_d Mainiac Dec 2011 #19
Was he swimming the Yalu River? rfranklin Dec 2011 #20
European Stocks Erase Early Losses Ghost Dog Dec 2011 #9
Britain to accept ICB bank reforms in full Ghost Dog Dec 2011 #10
morning xchrom Dec 2011 #13
Morning Demeter Dec 2011 #25
I'm so glad it went well! xchrom Dec 2011 #27
The thing is Demeter Dec 2011 #36
ok -- you know something i don't -- where did fuddnik go? xchrom Dec 2011 #40
See WEE Tansy_Gold Dec 2011 #43
well that makes me very unhappy -- i adore fuddnik. xchrom Dec 2011 #49
Firefox isn't displaying the toon for me DemReadingDU Dec 2011 #46
I was using IE when I posted it and I can see it with Safari. Hugin Dec 2011 #52
Do you have the source website? Demeter Dec 2011 #60
No. Hugin Dec 2011 #65
These are the sites Ozy left us for cartoons Demeter Dec 2011 #92
This one is cute Demeter Dec 2011 #93
And for domestic consumption... Demeter Dec 2011 #94
Are you running adblock or adban? Sometimes the addons are the problem. TalkingDog Dec 2011 #106
yes, both adblock plus and flashblock DemReadingDU Dec 2011 #108
Did you try rightclick, view/refresh image? Sometimes they just don't load. Other than that.... TalkingDog Dec 2011 #109
I just copy the link and browse it in IE, and the image appears DemReadingDU Dec 2011 #110
Fudds profile still states 'active" n/t Po_d Mainiac Dec 2011 #55
It was his choice, this time Demeter Dec 2011 #95
Goldman Sachs Winning CEOs as Global No. 1 xchrom Dec 2011 #14
Is It Trust, or Blackmail? Demeter Dec 2011 #24
When has it ever been anything else? n/t Tansy_Gold Dec 2011 #44
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europe: German Economic Growth to Drop Before Rebounding in 2013 , Bundesbank Says xchrom Dec 2011 #15
Euro in Crisis 8% Stronger Than Average Since 1999 as Losses Seen for 2012 xchrom Dec 2011 #16
Turkey Summoning of French Executives Before Armenian Vote Threatens Trade xchrom Dec 2011 #17
Spanish house prices decline for 14th consecutive quarter xchrom Dec 2011 #18
Hmm, maybe I should start house-hunting again. . . . n/t Tansy_Gold Dec 2011 #22
if i had the money -- i would SO get a place in spain. nt xchrom Dec 2011 #28
You need to choose _where_ in Spain. Ghost Dog Dec 2011 #45
Well, it's been more than 40 years since I was there, but Tansy_Gold Dec 2011 #56
Well, where €300,000 were sought 2 years ago it may be going for €150,000 now... Ghost Dog Dec 2011 #86
Even so, it's still out of the question because I have the dogs Tansy_Gold Dec 2011 #99
Forecast, schmorecast Tansy_Gold Dec 2011 #21
Britain's Mounting Distrust of Germany xchrom Dec 2011 #54
Pretty Grim Cartoon, Hugin Demeter Dec 2011 #23
It's a holiday thing. Hugin Dec 2011 #53
I laugh uproariously during that special, esp. when the commercials come on. Incongruity amuses TalkingDog Dec 2011 #107
Don’t Tax the Rich. Tax Inequality Itself. Demeter Dec 2011 #29
AS WALLY SAYS Demeter Dec 2011 #30
PRECIOUS-Gold eases as Fitch downgrade warning hurts euro xchrom Dec 2011 #32
Asia isn't happy this morning Demeter Dec 2011 #33
Flash in the pan Demeter Dec 2011 #62
Why we flee those crowded aisles xchrom Dec 2011 #35
Not to mention that you can't see, reach or do anything, nor get the cart down the aisle Demeter Dec 2011 #37
Old Dogs, New Tricks: Why More Seniors Are Starting Companies xchrom Dec 2011 #41
But is she making any money? Demeter Dec 2011 #63
south asia: India begins crucial week for anti-corruption bill xchrom Dec 2011 #42
India facing trade 'disaster xchrom Dec 2011 #57
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the Queen of Snark strikes again! xchrom Dec 2011 #72
RBS told to shrink investment bank Demeter Dec 2011 #66
ECB warns of further contagion risks Demeter Dec 2011 #67
Ultra-cheap money is having the opposite to the desired effect Demeter Dec 2011 #68
Draghi warns on eurozone break-up Demeter Dec 2011 #69
Damned with faint plans Demeter Dec 2011 #70
Banks resist European pressure to buy government debt Demeter Dec 2011 #71
Credit agencies pile pressure on EU leaders Demeter Dec 2011 #73
That chart's out of date (Dec 14). Latest rates are half that (see post #2) Ghost Dog Dec 2011 #88
Spain's new prime minister pledges €16bn spending cuts Ghost Dog Dec 2011 #91
My G-d! The Spanish banks may have to mark to market their loans and recovered collateral from the amandabeech Dec 2011 #103
As you see, the so-called 'vigilantes' are not demanding similar action in the USA Ghost Dog Dec 2011 #104
I wonder if the vigilantes will get this guy to recant. amandabeech Dec 2011 #113
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Plan B – How to Loot Nations and Their Banks Legally By David Malone MUST READ!! Demeter Dec 2011 #87
To tell you the truth, I'm sorry I asked. The Answer is devastating Demeter Dec 2011 #89
Here's the crux of it, I think: Ghost Dog Dec 2011 #112
That might explain the run on AIG. n/t amandabeech Dec 2011 #114
Mortgage curbs mean fewer loans for the over-50s IN UK Demeter Dec 2011 #96
British Regulator Softens Mortgage Rules for Lenders’ Existing Customers Demeter Dec 2011 #97
Happy Birthday, and Congrats to Yves Smith! Demeter Dec 2011 #98
FHFA Inspector General End Runs DoJ, Joins Forces With New York Attorney General Schneiderman Demeter Dec 2011 #100
This slump won’t end until 2031 / The Long Depression: The Slump of 2008-2031 by Matthew Lynn Demeter Dec 2011 #101
My guess is that by 2031 climate disaster bread_and_roses Dec 2011 #111
How Business Schools Got to Be the Way They Are Demeter Dec 2011 #102
Stocks hit daily lows as Bank of America stock drops below $5/share Roland99 Dec 2011 #105
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