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Mattias

(25 posts)
11. Real and nomninall money
Sat Sep 15, 2012, 07:56 PM
Sep 2012

It is basically a GOP trick (I hope) or total lack of education in economics (which would be sad). Basically there are two deficits/surpluses. The nominal and the real.
A nominal deficit means that in money you spend more than you receive. This is a meaningless way to measure any type of economic action.
The real deficit is what matters.
To make it simple, suppose you are the premier in an economy with a GDP of 1 000 billion. Suppose the national debt is 500 billion. This gives you an economy with a debt to GDP of 50 %.
Assume that over a ten year period this economy doubles in size in real terms and experience a consistent inflation of 5 % per annum. This will give the economy a nominal GDP of 3 628 at the end of the period.
Should the budget be balanced over this period the debt will still be 500 billion but its share of GDP will have been reduced to less than 14 % of GDP. So without paying a cent the debt has been reduced by 36 % of GDP. This is assuming the budget is fully neutral. Should the revenue exceed the expenses and assuming the budget stays neutral. Actual repayments would reduce it even more. Should your government wish to expand you could take on 1 314 billion more in debt and still be owing 50 % of GDP.
Both Great Britain who owed 214 % of GDP and the United States who owed 129 % after WWII choose to let inflation and growth repay their public debt. No money was ever used to repay debt, interest was paid in order and growth and inflation took care of the rest. The first time debt increased in real terms was paradoxally when Prime minister Thatcher and President Reagan won their respective elections.
If a county owes 15 gazillions fake dollar and has a GDP of 1 gazillions of fake dollar it is in trouble. If a country owes 15 gazillions fake dollar and has a GDP of 10 000 gazillions fake dollars its biggest trouble is not debt.
GOP has a problem differing between real and nominal money. This makes the implication that they if they have economist should fire them and if they don’t should employ some. A Candidate whose one election promise is to fix the economy cannot be a person that skipped econ 101

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There was a national debt number when he left office Gman Sep 2012 #1
I think they predicted more or less by 2007, I forget. secondwind Sep 2012 #5
Clinton surplus Mattias Sep 2012 #10
All of our public finances are pretty much made up as we go along. bemildred Sep 2012 #2
It's borrowed from the Chinese, Japanese, individual American citizens and institutions that buy US progree Sep 2012 #13
It's real debt, but it's debt in fake money. bemildred Sep 2012 #16
Nobody "added a zero". Sorry about that. Tell Greece, Spain etc. their debt problems aren't real progree Sep 2012 #18
The Fed adds zeroes whenever it likes. bemildred Sep 2012 #19
Nope, they do not. But don't let me interfere with your fantastical delusions progree Sep 2012 #20
It's paper, when it's anything at all. bemildred Sep 2012 #21
Its not "just paper" when the sheriff comes to evict you from your home. Go bug the freepers nt progree Sep 2012 #25
OK, it's special paper, with little colored threads in it, and holographs. bemildred Sep 2012 #26
Yes. Now go bug the freepers. Most of us are working on campaigns. nt progree Sep 2012 #27
Don't let me drag you away from your work Sport. nt bemildred Sep 2012 #28
Put it another way: the surplus is just as real as the debt. bemildred Sep 2012 #22
It was real, or would have been in foreseeable future, elleng Sep 2012 #3
Not the wars EC Sep 2012 #6
thanks for replies, although am still confused, but less so! secondwind Sep 2012 #4
Republicans call it "imaginary" because the surplus came from Warpy Sep 2012 #7
Absolutely NO MYTH. mother earth Sep 2012 #8
Add to that, Republican presidents have historically & factually been the true spenders, Reagan & GW mother earth Sep 2012 #9
Some more on that point -- progree Sep 2012 #14
Too good to wait for opening your link: TY progree. mother earth Sep 2012 #23
There's NOTHING conservative about the GOP, in fact that label squarely belongs to the Dems. mother earth Sep 2012 #24
So why did the national debt keep increasing every year? I think because there are other surpluses progree Sep 2012 #15
Real and nomninall money Mattias Sep 2012 #11
They were kind of, sort of, real surpluses progree Sep 2012 #12
Taxes for the wealthy have been slashed significantly through those years. What is expected then, mother earth Sep 2012 #17
National Debt Mattias Sep 2012 #29
Well said. There's no easy way out of this Bush Depression...the GOP sunk this ship, when Obama is mother earth Sep 2012 #30
And to add Mattias Sep 2012 #31
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