Future of America's Nuclear Power Plants

[PamW]

35. FOUL!!!

Last edited Wed May 9, 2012, 09:21 AM - Edit history (1)

Kris,

Weren't you just warned that calling other people liars was against forum rules.

Additionally, I seem to remember it is also against rules to liken DU members to Republicans. I am NOT changing my position; so you have no reason to compare me to Republican Romney.

If you read my post above; you will see that I always contended that "baseload" meant minimum value; just as the dictionary definitions state. So where am I changing my position.

I didn't "pretend" to quote the 2010 paper; I DID quote the 2010 NAS study:

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=12619&page=258

A grid can support some intermittent resources without electricity storage if sufficient excess capacity is available to maintain resource adequacy. As described below and in Chapter 7, in many cases the amount of intermittent renewable resources that can be supported is approximately 20 percent, particularly for utilities that rely primarily on hydropower or natural-gas-fired generation..

I had been saying ALL ALONG that in the absence of a backup storage system, that the National Academy of Sciences say that renewables can only by 20% of the generating capacity due to their intermittent nature.

Contrary to the ill-considered contention above, renewables NEVER "match the demand curve perfectly. How can they? The amount of energy that you get from renewables is what Mother Nature is offering at the time. For solar, the output of solar is dependent on where the Sun is in the sky; and of course, land-based solar gives you ZERO power at night. Solar is also subject to variance due to clouds. Wind is also subject to the whims of Mother Nature. It was a quite warm day yesterday, and as I was driving home I can see the local windfarm, one of the largest in the USA, and ALL turbines were at a dead stop. ( If a nice high pressure system covers the area, you don't have a pressure differential for the turbines to work off. Everywhere is at the same high pressure ). Renewables only give you what Mother Nature is offering at the time, and that is totally disconnected with what the demand curve is.

Dispatchable power generators, like coal, gas, nuclear, geothermal, and hydro have throttles. You can throttle the power generation to match demand - in fact, you HAVE to in order to keep the grid stable. The grid is just wires, it doesn't store energy. So what ever is demanded has to be exactly matched by energy generation.

Renewables CAN'T do that. Renewables by their nature are intermittent, and have to have some other means to match the demand; either other dispatchable power plants or energy storage. That's why the National Academy of Sciences puts the 20% limit on renewables quoted above.

PamW