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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
73. AS to Nuclear Weapons..
Thu May 24, 2012, 06:33 PM
May 2012

To have a nuclear explosion you need to have something like 98% U-235 or 98% pure plutonium. U-235 breaks down into U-238, which does NOT go super critical (unless enhanced with Neutrons to become Plutonium). What is the "Super Critical" Percentage is Classified but we know it takes about 25 pounds of Uranium or 12 pounds of Plutonium to go "Super Critical". In 1946 the US issued a book on its Nuclear research. The book is part of the Classification of Nuclear weapons technology. The book gave out a lot of information the Scientists on the Manhattan Project thought other scientists should know, but kept what they thought was needed to make an actual nuclear device secret. Thus we know the Weight of the Hiroshima And Nagasaki Bombs, but NOT the percentage of U-235 in the Hiroshima bomb or the percentage of Plutonium in the Nagasaki bomb.

Anything less then whatever is the Super Critical mass percentage, you do NOT have enough Uranium or Plutonium to go "Super critical" (i.e. what we call the Nuclear bomb "exploding&quot . It is estimated that given the nature of Uranium and Plutonium (i.e. being radioactive, they are constantly breaking down into other elements), it takes no more then 5-10 years for the percentage of U-235 and Plutonium to drop below what is needed to go "Super Critical". Some indication is that it may be less time (i.e. 2 years) but the exact percentage is classified (The decay rate is NOT, for that is well known, the issue is what is the point when the AMOUNT of Uranium or Plutonium falls below what is needed to go Super-Critical).

If the Nuclear device is on a Rocket, if it is a liquid fuel rockets (As were the First ICBMs, the Atlas also used in the Mercury Launches and the Titan IIs, also used in the Gemini project) then within about a month enough Hydrogen would have leaked out to make the rocket useless. Liquid Hydrogen leaks at the rate of 1% per day from any container, not from leaks, but right through the walls of the Container. Hydrogen is the smallest atom, when liquidlified it is even smaller. Thus the Hydrogen atoms and easily squeeze through the atoms of any container, thus the 1% per day leakage rate.

Solid Fuel Missiles (Such as the Minuteman missiles) do NOT have the problem of hydrogen leaking, thus can last forever, in theory. In these weapons the limitation is thus the ability of the warhead to go super critical (i.e. explode) AND the ability to keep rodents out of them so that enough material is left to actually fire the system. In affect after 5-10 years of neglect even these would be useless.

Now, Nuclear power plants do NOT need "Weapons Grade" nuclear material (Whatever that is, I suspect 98% or more Uranium or Plutonium), the uranium they use tend to be in the 20% grade level. Enough to go "Super-critical" to make power and even cause a nuclear meltdown, as in Chernobyl and Fukushima. Many of the writers above, get hung up on Nuclear Power, which your question does NOT ask about, and ignore Nuclear Weapons, which is what your question is about. I hope I have done the opposite ignore Nuclear power plants and concentrated on Nuclear bombs.

In simple terms, the Nuclear devices will NOT be capable of exploding within 5-10 years of neglect. Some missiles will no longer work after 30 days, but most (the Solid fuel Missiles) will outlast the ability of the warhead to go boom. I have ignore the electrical power needed to launch such missiles, no power no launch, but most such power is very secure and would outlast the warheads (underground bunkers with backup automatic generators, would run till out of fuel 30-60 days after the generators start to generate i.e. after all other electrical power is shut off). \

Side note: Most the Uranium and Plutonium in these missiles (or hangers if you include the bombs kept for use on planes) will still be highly radioactive, but not enough to do any damage i.e not enough nuclear material IN THE WARHEADS to cause a melt down. The material will just sit there until the missile collapse under them to do age, then sit where ever they may fall till the material decay to non-radioactive materials. These weapon grade levels of Uranium and Plutonium are in terms of mass way less then in a nuclear power plant. In a plant you can have enough nuclear material to cause a chain reaction (go Super Critical) but NOT at the pace to cause what we would call a "Boom". Instead you could have enough at one spot to go super-critical and then fall to the center of the earth, for there would be nothing to stop it.

According to some recent research, the reason the Earth is Volcanic is that when the earth was formed Uranium, being the heaviest element, fell to the extreme center and then form a natural nuclear reactor (Thus the background radiation all over the world). This natural nuclear reactor produced so much heat that it has kept the surrounding iron liquid so that we have a molten core, which permits the continents of "move" and Volcanoes to exist. Just pointing out Nuclear power will exist for millions of years to come, will this center runs out of Uranium and cools down (and the Continents stop moving and the earth dies). Uranium is not bad in itself, but bad if used incorrectly or carelessly. The nature of Nuclear weapons is that unless someone uses them within a few years of making them OR rebuild them to keep them active, they will naturally become useless as weapons within less then 10 years. The Actual nuclear material can still kill people for thousands of years, but not enough to go super critical and melt to the center of the earth, unlike Nuclear plants when that can happen given the serve volume of Nuclear material used in such plants.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

As happened in the last billion or so years I would think things would re-evolve until Lint Head May 2012 #1
This seems to be the likeliest scenario. GreenPartyVoter May 2012 #6
From what I have read, the missiles will just sit there. It's the reactors that might pose a problem Ian David May 2012 #2
Well, it's reassuring to know we won't be able to blow things up any more. But yeah, the ability GreenPartyVoter May 2012 #5
A similar question might be: Who tends to the nuclear powerplant meltdowns when the grid falls? villager May 2012 #3
Yes, exactly. We have all kinds of infrastructure that is far from benign. It will certainly GreenPartyVoter May 2012 #4
When the grid fails, the graphite rods drop into the reactor, shutting it down TrogL May 2012 #8
That's what happened at Fukushima - fuel rods keep generating heat even with control rods inserted bananas May 2012 #24
A year later and they STILL have to pump cooling water into the reactors and spent fuel pools. nt bananas May 2012 #26
Some recent news stories about how necessary cooling water is after the plant is "shut down" bananas May 2012 #28
Not GRAPHITE!!! PamW May 2012 #33
When "the grid falls" there's no reason to keep running the reactor. jeff47 May 2012 #10
National Geographic has a less apologetic view of nuclear power, addressing the stored fuel rods villager May 2012 #20
As we've seen in Fukushima... caraher May 2012 #21
Exactly. Indeed, in these "aftermath" specials, they seem to think natural forces would "scrub away" villager May 2012 #22
No control rods in your scenario jeff47 May 2012 #37
Again, I will take the National Geographic scenario over yours villager May 2012 #40
So, you'd prefer to blatently ignore the critical difference jeff47 May 2012 #41
You didn't actually read National Geo's thesis, did you? villager May 2012 #43
You didn't actually read my posts, did you? jeff47 May 2012 #47
Yes, but even if plants survive safely their fuel will not. I realize all is hunky-dory in nuke land villager May 2012 #50
You should stop making dumb assumptions about other posters. jeff47 May 2012 #54
Ah, the "reality" card. villager May 2012 #57
Yes, reality jeff47 May 2012 #61
Fukushima is a "localized" disaster? villager May 2012 #64
Again, reality rears it's ugly head jeff47 May 2012 #66
"Again, reality rears its ugly head" villager May 2012 #83
Perhaps I can answer for you PamW May 2012 #77
It depends on the plant jeff47 May 2012 #79
WRONG!!!! WRONG!!! WRONG!!! PamW May 2012 #85
The reactor continues generating decay heat which can destroy the containment in hours bananas May 2012 #25
Why do you make a series of one-sentence replies? jeff47 May 2012 #38
Is that going to be in Bill Maher's New Rules segment this week? kristopher May 2012 #39
I'm not interested in banning him or her. jeff47 May 2012 #42
So you think "internet-message-board etiquette" is established by what you like. kristopher May 2012 #44
Perhaps you could provide a positive reason for spamming replies? jeff47 May 2012 #45
See post 44. kristopher May 2012 #48
Why? jeff47 May 2012 #49
A year later and they STILL have to pump cooling water into the reactors and spent fuel pools. bananas May 2012 #27
That's because there are no control rods jeff47 May 2012 #35
Control rods aren't the issue. PamW May 2012 #84
No, you can't ignore it, cooling water still has to be pumped in bananas May 2012 #29
Fukushima has no control rods anymore jeff47 May 2012 #36
"Fukushima has no control rods anymore" villager May 2012 #51
When they had control rods, they were a good safety feature. jeff47 May 2012 #52
"When they had control rods, they were a good safety feature" villager May 2012 #53
Perhaps you could take a moment and realize the alternative you're getting jeff47 May 2012 #55
So now we're talking about coal burning, and not the OP? villager May 2012 #56
You wandered into anti-nuke land. jeff47 May 2012 #59
Um, no. I was sticking to the OP (remember, it's about *nukes* in the aftermath of humankind) villager May 2012 #60
that's where you started. Then you moved on to anti-nuke jeff47 May 2012 #62
again, the OP is about *the disappearance of humankind* villager May 2012 #63
Conversations move on from where they start. jeff47 May 2012 #67
Yes. And on discussion boards like this, they start with the OP. villager May 2012 #68
I see it as just the opposite XemaSab May 2012 #69
XemaSab, do you think they're the only ones saying no hard choices lay aheaD? villager May 2012 #70
You're right, it's everyone XemaSab May 2012 #71
There are some cornucopians among 'em, but I also find many of them to be quite realistic villager May 2012 #72
I cannot answer your question, But I think it an excellent one truedelphi May 2012 #7
I was around when the USSR could have annhilated us, and it turned out to be the sun hitting GreenPartyVoter May 2012 #12
There is no way the human decision-makers have been or will be removed kristopher May 2012 #15
I wish I could believe you, truedelphi May 2012 #16
Take it or leave it. kristopher May 2012 #17
All I know is that even in Arizona, we can't have them in our house, car or on our person. OffWithTheirHeads May 2012 #9
LOL GreenPartyVoter May 2012 #13
Interesting questions SoutherDem May 2012 #11
I will definitely add that to my queue! LOL GreenPartyVoter May 2012 #14
You may want to check out, "Life After People" OKIsItJustMe May 2012 #18
My kids and I loved the "Life After People" series! I don't remember them discussing the GreenPartyVoter May 2012 #19
I don’t recall them specifically addressing them, no OKIsItJustMe May 2012 #23
nuclear missles need constant maintenance or they won't work. provis99 May 2012 #30
Humans are worse than nuclear waste. hunter May 2012 #31
The earth has gone through catastrophes much worse than a few bombs going off GliderGuider May 2012 #32
Actually a good perspective, GG. Though one wonders if the recent methane releases means villager May 2012 #65
Don't worry about nuclear weapons... PamW May 2012 #34
Just wondering SoutherDem May 2012 #46
OFF is OFF PamW May 2012 #58
Thanks, Pam! GreenPartyVoter May 2012 #74
AS to Nuclear Weapons.. happyslug May 2012 #73
Thank you. That all makes perfect sense to me. :^) GreenPartyVoter May 2012 #75
NOT TRUE!! PamW May 2012 #76
The "Weapons" can last, but NOT the Uranium or Plutonium in them happyslug May 2012 #78
WRONG!!!! WRONG!!! WRONG!!! PamW May 2012 #80
You cite some interesting articles happyslug May 2012 #81
Another thing that is NOT classified PamW May 2012 #82
Oh, there's lots of plutonium. AtheistCrusader May 2012 #99
If the human race disappears, there is no one around to care what happens next. FarCenter May 2012 #86
None of our reactors are currently 'walk away safe'. AtheistCrusader May 2012 #87
Argonne's Integral Fast Reactor is inherently safe.. PamW May 2012 #89
Hmm. That's not why Chernobyl exploded... AtheistCrusader May 2012 #90
WRONG - that IS why Chernobyl exploded.. PamW May 2012 #91
I wouldn't call the xenon poisoning 'augmenting'. AtheistCrusader May 2012 #92
Xenon Instability plus a trigger... PamW May 2012 #93
I disagree. AtheistCrusader May 2012 #94
The final event... PamW May 2012 #95
Those pumps were still spinning. AtheistCrusader May 2012 #96
The pumps didn't have to stop... PamW May 2012 #97
The rods moved. AtheistCrusader May 2012 #98
That's part of it. PamW May 2012 #100
I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree to disagree until I see this model. AtheistCrusader May 2012 #101
Let's go through the reactor physics.. PamW Jun 2012 #102
Over-moderated reactors PamW Jun 2012 #103
Hickory Dickory Dock Texas-Limerick May 2012 #88
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