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Environment & Energy

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)

9. Thanks for doing that, but not really my question :)

Reply to NNadir (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 5, 2023, 05:38 PM

Jul 2023

Say you have a solar farm and it's 10,000 acres, and at a normal solar farm efficiency, if the sun shone 24/7, it could produce 1 EJ per year (just made up numbers for sake of discussion).

BUT it has a natural gas plant to supplement for the times when, in reality, the sun doesn't shine i.e. night.

If you wanted to replace the dirty natural gas plant with a component of the solar farm that makes fuel via electrolysis of Hydrogen, to make sure the plant actually produces the 1 EJ it would produce if the sun always shone (H2 as a battery, essentially), how much larger would the farm have to be vs it's original 10,000 acres?

Accounting mainly for 'how much energy do you lose from electrolysis to create an adequate stockpile of H2', and 'how much energy do you lose then burning that H2 at night'.

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Elevated Radium Activity in a Hydrocarbon-Contaminated Aquifer [View all] NNadir Jul 2023 OP

So, out of curiosity, if say you were making giant solar grid Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #1

probably twice as big Blues Heron Jul 2023 #2

You're dreaming. NNadir Jul 2023 #3

This is actually a more complex question than you would think. NNadir Jul 2023 #4

Not asking you to do something crazy complex like a paper to submit to a bank for a loan Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #5

If nukes are the only way, then this can't be possible. There is no numerical answer to this. Blues Heron Jul 2023 #6

Yeah, let's burn the planet because we have paranoids afraid of clean energy. NNadir Jul 2023 #8

OK,I have a few minutes; I'll propose a new energy unit, "A California" corresponding to "homes..." NNadir Jul 2023 #7

Thanks for doing that, but not really my question :) Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #9

He answered it - 1 solar exajoule is 8 californias, 1 H2 exajoule is 13.4 californias Blues Heron Jul 2023 #10

It's relatively easy to calculate those numbers from the numbers in the post I provided. NNadir Jul 2023 #11

Let me ask what I'm wondering in the simplest terms possible Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #12

He gave you the ratio - its 13.4 to 8 Blues Heron Jul 2023 #13

All I saw him speaking about is what (I interpreted as) the MAKING of the Hydrogen piece Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #14

I think that is included in the calculation. Blues Heron Jul 2023 #16

Nothing in that post's verbiage suggests it does to me Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #17

pretty sure the reference to: liquid hydrogen having an energy content of roughly 120 MJ/kg. Blues Heron Jul 2023 #18

And without further clarification I assume 'energy content' refers to a theoretical maximum Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #20

good article on fuel cell efficiency here Blues Heron Jul 2023 #22

Let's stick with Exajoules (1) and Californias, since CAISO gives Solar Output every day. NNadir Jul 2023 #23

Yup. I was just curious about the scale involved if you tried to use hydrogen Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #24

Yeah, it's more or less a theoretical lower limit. Reality would... NNadir Jul 2023 #26

You don't have to work on that scale to get a feel for the problem. hunter Jul 2023 #15

Thanks for that, and it's more or less as I assumed 'things to be' Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #19

Here's the argument I've used previously: hunter Jul 2023 #21

Thanks mate, trenchant points :) nt Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #25