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Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
19. Thanks for that, and it's more or less as I assumed 'things to be'
Wed Jul 5, 2023, 10:17 PM
Jul 2023

My question was focused around, basically, this part: "Getting to at least 98% reliable 100% solar power (which isn't that great as it means seven days a year of extreme electricity shortages) is another problem entirely, requiring ludicrous amounts of storage ..."

How ludicrous are we talking here?

Also I still struggle to see (even after years of reading NNadir and yourself) how if one takes an area who's energy is 100% sourced from natural gas, and build out a renewable installation that can replace 30% of that natural gas ... how this is not a net-positive effect? You're burning less carbon. Yes it only lasts so long (like anything else), and yes, you need 'land' to do so, but in the net I'm just not quite sure why it's a terrible idea?

These practical concerns need to be factored into the calculations if the alternative is 'replace the gas plant with nuclear': You can get politicians onboard easier, build it out quicker, with much less stringent permitting, and much less NIMBY pushback. It also makes funding simpler I'd imagine, as initial outlay is likely much less.

Even if you run out of money on your renewable installation, you just install fewer panels.

Run out of $$$ on an NPP, and you never end up w/a single KW.

I get that it's a drag that this scenario essentially perpetuates NG usage, but ... didn't you already start that way?

Let's just say I've yet to be entirely convinced that renewables don't make at least reasonable sense in areas with a lot of sunlight or wind, where current needs are mostly or wholly served by fossil fuel plants

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So, out of curiosity, if say you were making giant solar grid Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #1
probably twice as big Blues Heron Jul 2023 #2
You're dreaming. NNadir Jul 2023 #3
This is actually a more complex question than you would think. NNadir Jul 2023 #4
Not asking you to do something crazy complex like a paper to submit to a bank for a loan Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #5
If nukes are the only way, then this can't be possible. There is no numerical answer to this. Blues Heron Jul 2023 #6
Yeah, let's burn the planet because we have paranoids afraid of clean energy. NNadir Jul 2023 #8
OK,I have a few minutes; I'll propose a new energy unit, "A California" corresponding to "homes..." NNadir Jul 2023 #7
Thanks for doing that, but not really my question :) Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #9
He answered it - 1 solar exajoule is 8 californias, 1 H2 exajoule is 13.4 californias Blues Heron Jul 2023 #10
It's relatively easy to calculate those numbers from the numbers in the post I provided. NNadir Jul 2023 #11
Let me ask what I'm wondering in the simplest terms possible Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #12
He gave you the ratio - its 13.4 to 8 Blues Heron Jul 2023 #13
All I saw him speaking about is what (I interpreted as) the MAKING of the Hydrogen piece Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #14
I think that is included in the calculation. Blues Heron Jul 2023 #16
Nothing in that post's verbiage suggests it does to me Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #17
pretty sure the reference to: liquid hydrogen having an energy content of roughly 120 MJ/kg. Blues Heron Jul 2023 #18
And without further clarification I assume 'energy content' refers to a theoretical maximum Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #20
good article on fuel cell efficiency here Blues Heron Jul 2023 #22
Let's stick with Exajoules (1) and Californias, since CAISO gives Solar Output every day. NNadir Jul 2023 #23
Yup. I was just curious about the scale involved if you tried to use hydrogen Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #24
Yeah, it's more or less a theoretical lower limit. Reality would... NNadir Jul 2023 #26
You don't have to work on that scale to get a feel for the problem. hunter Jul 2023 #15
Thanks for that, and it's more or less as I assumed 'things to be' Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #19
Here's the argument I've used previously: hunter Jul 2023 #21
Thanks mate, trenchant points :) nt Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #25
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