Environment & Energy

PamW

(1,825 posts)

97. The pumps didn't have to stop...

Thu May 31, 2012, 01:31 PM

May 2012

The pumps didn't have to stop.

The Wikipedia article is out of date with respect to the latest modeling.

The mere reduction in coolant flow triggered a temperature increase.

The increased temperature caused increased power - the reactivity temperature coefficient was positive.

The increased power caused more increased power - due to Xenon instability.

The Wiki article states that there was some concern that the scram was activated AFTER the start of the explosion.

The most recent modeling indicates that is the case.

The last fatal action of the operators was the cutoff of the steam to the coolant pump turbines. THAT is the fatal action.

The scram was incidental. Control rods even with followers don't have enough reactivity to trigger the explosion.

PamW

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I have a question about nuclear weapons. Anyone here know much about them? [View all] GreenPartyVoter May 2012 OP

As happened in the last billion or so years I would think things would re-evolve until Lint Head May 2012 #1

This seems to be the likeliest scenario. GreenPartyVoter May 2012 #6

From what I have read, the missiles will just sit there. It's the reactors that might pose a problem Ian David May 2012 #2

Well, it's reassuring to know we won't be able to blow things up any more. But yeah, the ability GreenPartyVoter May 2012 #5

A similar question might be: Who tends to the nuclear powerplant meltdowns when the grid falls? villager May 2012 #3

Yes, exactly. We have all kinds of infrastructure that is far from benign. It will certainly GreenPartyVoter May 2012 #4

When the grid fails, the graphite rods drop into the reactor, shutting it down TrogL May 2012 #8

That's what happened at Fukushima - fuel rods keep generating heat even with control rods inserted bananas May 2012 #24

A year later and they STILL have to pump cooling water into the reactors and spent fuel pools. nt bananas May 2012 #26

Some recent news stories about how necessary cooling water is after the plant is "shut down" bananas May 2012 #28

Not GRAPHITE!!! PamW May 2012 #33

When "the grid falls" there's no reason to keep running the reactor. jeff47 May 2012 #10

National Geographic has a less apologetic view of nuclear power, addressing the stored fuel rods villager May 2012 #20

As we've seen in Fukushima... caraher May 2012 #21

Exactly. Indeed, in these "aftermath" specials, they seem to think natural forces would "scrub away" villager May 2012 #22

No control rods in your scenario jeff47 May 2012 #37

Again, I will take the National Geographic scenario over yours villager May 2012 #40

So, you'd prefer to blatently ignore the critical difference jeff47 May 2012 #41

You didn't actually read National Geo's thesis, did you? villager May 2012 #43

You didn't actually read my posts, did you? jeff47 May 2012 #47

Yes, but even if plants survive safely their fuel will not. I realize all is hunky-dory in nuke land villager May 2012 #50

You should stop making dumb assumptions about other posters. jeff47 May 2012 #54

Ah, the "reality" card. villager May 2012 #57

Yes, reality jeff47 May 2012 #61

Fukushima is a "localized" disaster? villager May 2012 #64

Again, reality rears it's ugly head jeff47 May 2012 #66

"Again, reality rears its ugly head" villager May 2012 #83

Perhaps I can answer for you PamW May 2012 #77

It depends on the plant jeff47 May 2012 #79

WRONG!!!! WRONG!!! WRONG!!! PamW May 2012 #85

The reactor continues generating decay heat which can destroy the containment in hours bananas May 2012 #25

Why do you make a series of one-sentence replies? jeff47 May 2012 #38

Is that going to be in Bill Maher's New Rules segment this week? kristopher May 2012 #39

I'm not interested in banning him or her. jeff47 May 2012 #42

So you think "internet-message-board etiquette" is established by what you like. kristopher May 2012 #44

Perhaps you could provide a positive reason for spamming replies? jeff47 May 2012 #45

See post 44. kristopher May 2012 #48

Why? jeff47 May 2012 #49

A year later and they STILL have to pump cooling water into the reactors and spent fuel pools. bananas May 2012 #27

That's because there are no control rods jeff47 May 2012 #35

Control rods aren't the issue. PamW May 2012 #84

No, you can't ignore it, cooling water still has to be pumped in bananas May 2012 #29

Fukushima has no control rods anymore jeff47 May 2012 #36

"Fukushima has no control rods anymore" villager May 2012 #51

When they had control rods, they were a good safety feature. jeff47 May 2012 #52

"When they had control rods, they were a good safety feature" villager May 2012 #53

Perhaps you could take a moment and realize the alternative you're getting jeff47 May 2012 #55

So now we're talking about coal burning, and not the OP? villager May 2012 #56

You wandered into anti-nuke land. jeff47 May 2012 #59

Um, no. I was sticking to the OP (remember, it's about *nukes* in the aftermath of humankind) villager May 2012 #60

that's where you started. Then you moved on to anti-nuke jeff47 May 2012 #62

again, the OP is about *the disappearance of humankind* villager May 2012 #63

Conversations move on from where they start. jeff47 May 2012 #67

Yes. And on discussion boards like this, they start with the OP. villager May 2012 #68

I see it as just the opposite XemaSab May 2012 #69

XemaSab, do you think they're the only ones saying no hard choices lay aheaD? villager May 2012 #70

You're right, it's everyone XemaSab May 2012 #71

There are some cornucopians among 'em, but I also find many of them to be quite realistic villager May 2012 #72

I cannot answer your question, But I think it an excellent one truedelphi May 2012 #7

I was around when the USSR could have annhilated us, and it turned out to be the sun hitting GreenPartyVoter May 2012 #12

There is no way the human decision-makers have been or will be removed kristopher May 2012 #15

I wish I could believe you, truedelphi May 2012 #16

Take it or leave it. kristopher May 2012 #17

All I know is that even in Arizona, we can't have them in our house, car or on our person. OffWithTheirHeads May 2012 #9

LOL GreenPartyVoter May 2012 #13

Interesting questions SoutherDem May 2012 #11

I will definitely add that to my queue! LOL GreenPartyVoter May 2012 #14

You may want to check out, "Life After People" OKIsItJustMe May 2012 #18

My kids and I loved the "Life After People" series! I don't remember them discussing the GreenPartyVoter May 2012 #19

I don�t recall them specifically addressing them, no OKIsItJustMe May 2012 #23

nuclear missles need constant maintenance or they won't work. provis99 May 2012 #30

Humans are worse than nuclear waste. hunter May 2012 #31

The earth has gone through catastrophes much worse than a few bombs going off GliderGuider May 2012 #32

Actually a good perspective, GG. Though one wonders if the recent methane releases means villager May 2012 #65

Don't worry about nuclear weapons... PamW May 2012 #34

Just wondering SoutherDem May 2012 #46

OFF is OFF PamW May 2012 #58

Thanks, Pam! GreenPartyVoter May 2012 #74

AS to Nuclear Weapons.. happyslug May 2012 #73

Thank you. That all makes perfect sense to me. :^) GreenPartyVoter May 2012 #75

NOT TRUE!! PamW May 2012 #76

The "Weapons" can last, but NOT the Uranium or Plutonium in them happyslug May 2012 #78

WRONG!!!! WRONG!!! WRONG!!! PamW May 2012 #80

You cite some interesting articles happyslug May 2012 #81

Another thing that is NOT classified PamW May 2012 #82

Oh, there's lots of plutonium. AtheistCrusader May 2012 #99

If the human race disappears, there is no one around to care what happens next. FarCenter May 2012 #86

None of our reactors are currently 'walk away safe'. AtheistCrusader May 2012 #87

Argonne's Integral Fast Reactor is inherently safe.. PamW May 2012 #89

Hmm. That's not why Chernobyl exploded... AtheistCrusader May 2012 #90

WRONG - that IS why Chernobyl exploded.. PamW May 2012 #91

I wouldn't call the xenon poisoning 'augmenting'. AtheistCrusader May 2012 #92

Xenon Instability plus a trigger... PamW May 2012 #93

I disagree. AtheistCrusader May 2012 #94

The final event... PamW May 2012 #95

Those pumps were still spinning. AtheistCrusader May 2012 #96

The pumps didn't have to stop... PamW May 2012 #97

The rods moved. AtheistCrusader May 2012 #98

That's part of it. PamW May 2012 #100

I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree to disagree until I see this model. AtheistCrusader May 2012 #101

Let's go through the reactor physics.. PamW Jun 2012 #102

Over-moderated reactors PamW Jun 2012 #103

Hickory Dickory Dock Texas-Limerick May 2012 #88