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OKIsItJustMe

(22,018 posts)
9. I am tired of “Jevons’ Paradox”
Wed Jun 6, 2012, 03:23 PM
Jun 2012

It is invoked as some sort of magical dictum, to suggest that any attempt to improve our lot will eventually produce an overwhelmingly negative result.

This, I feel, is defeatist, and more simply, wrong.

http://realclimateeconomics.org/wp/archives/647

[font face=Serif][font size=5]Rebounds Gone Wild[/font]
by James Barrett • January 10, 2011 @ 11:30 am
This post by Real Climate Economics blogger James Barrett originally appeared on the Great Energy Challenge blog, in partnership with National Geographic and Planet Forward.

[font size=3]…

The focus of the article is something called the Jevons paradox (named after economist William Jevons), or the more common and more broadly defined “rebound effect.” In essence the rebound effect is the fact that as energy efficiency goes up, using energy consuming products becomes less expensive, which in turn leads us to consume more energy.

Jevons’ claim was that this rebound effect would be so large that increasing energy efficiency would not decrease energy use. The rebound effect would eat up all (or more than all) of the energy savings.

To be clear, the rebound effect is real. The theory behind it is sound: Lower the cost of anything and people will use more of it, including the cost of running energy consuming equipment. But as with many economic ideas that are sound theory (like the idea that you can raise government revenues by cutting tax rates), the trick is in knowing how far to take them in reality. (Cutting tax rates from 100% to 50% would certainly raise revenues. Cutting them from 50% to 0% would just as surely lower them.)

The problem with knowing how far to take things like this is that unlike real scientists who can run experiments in a controlled laboratory environment, economists usually have to rely on what we can observe in the real world. Unfortunately, the real world is complicated and trying to disentangle everything that’s going on is very difficult.

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http://realclimateeconomics.org/wp/archives/654
[font face=Serif][font size=5]Rebounds and Jevons: Nobody Goes There Anymore. It’s Too Crowded[/font]

by James Barrett • January 18, 2011 @ 8:27 am
This is the second post in a series on the rebound effect and energy efficiency by Real Climate Economics blogger James Barrett. It originally appeared in the Great Energy Challenge blog, in partnership with National Geographic and Planet Forward

[font size=3]My last post on David Owen’s piece in the New Yorker and on the Jevons effect stirred up some interesting questions and discussion that I want to follow up on here. My last one purposely avoided some of the more technical parts of the issue to keep it readable and under my word limit. I think I’m about to undo that.

But first we should pay thanks to the great 20th Century philosopher, Yogi Berra, from whom I shamelessly stole the title of this post. Though he discovered it nearly 100 years after Stanley Jevons, I believe his exploration of the Jevons effect is more complete and accurate than Jevons’ own, as well as being vastly shorter. The notion that we could get so efficient at using energy that we’d end up using more is about as valid as the idea that a restaurant could get so crowded that it was empty.

[font size=4]Dictating Terms[/font]

Though I hate having arguments about how we should argue, there are a few things we need to get straight:

First, as originally observed and defined by Jevons, the Jevons effect is a decidedly micro issue. He observed that increased energy efficiency in coal fired steam engines resulted in increased use of coal to fire steam engines as they were used in more applications and more intensively in existing ones.

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Geoengineering experiment cancelled amid patent row joshcryer Jun 2012 #1
A charter for geoengineering joshcryer Jun 2012 #2
... and I've been there with you ... Nihil Jun 2012 #14
+1 drokhole Jun 2012 #15
From 7 years ago dipsydoodle Jun 2012 #3
Nobody actually needs to SEE the stars. That's what we have satellites for... GliderGuider Jun 2012 #4
I'm not sure resort is the right word The2ndWheel Jun 2012 #5
Mind you, this is just one scenario. (i.e. adding sufates to the upper atmosphere.) OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #6
Other schemes are not cheap. Global dimming happens for free* when you pollute. joshcryer Jun 2012 #18
Even this scheme actually involves some expense OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #19
I didn't say it was free, I said it was cheaper than the alternatives. joshcryer Jun 2012 #23
"Global dimming happens for free* when you pollute." OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #24
Did you not see the asterisk? joshcryer Jun 2012 #25
Sure did! OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #28
Jevon's Paradox would be a useful parable here. IDemo Jun 2012 #7
I am tired of “Jevons’ Paradox” OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #9
Then we're disagreed on the issue IDemo Jun 2012 #10
In the first place, this is a misapplication of “Jervons Paradox” OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #11
You must have missed the word "parable" in my post IDemo Jun 2012 #12
Jervons was wrong OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #13
Never mind aesthetics caraher Jun 2012 #8
What Are People Really Talking About When They Talk About "Geo-Engineering"? drokhole Jun 2012 #16
Aerosols are the cheapest way to do it, and thus is how it is going to be done. joshcryer Jun 2012 #17
These approaches are also not effective OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #20
Reducing incoming sunlight does not help with ocean acidification, drm604 Jun 2012 #21
Correct! OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #22
Nothing to see here... joshcryer Jun 2012 #26
It's not that there’s nothing to see here OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #27
Scientists warn geoengineering may disrupt rainfall joshcryer Jul 2012 #29
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Geoengineering would turn...»Reply #9