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OKIsItJustMe

(21,734 posts)
13. Jervons was wrong
Wed Jun 6, 2012, 05:28 PM
Jun 2012
http://realclimateeconomics.org/wp/archives/654
[font face=Serif][font size=3]… the central point of Jevons’ theory was that advances in energy efficiency forced increases in energy consumption. Not merely that consumption increased despite efficiency, but that efficiency caused the increase.

So, if you believe that energy consumption would have been higher without advances in energy efficiency then, by definition, you do not also believe in the Jevons effect.

…[/font][/font]


Yes, I agree that the notion of pumping sulfates into the upper atmosphere:
  1. Is misguided
  2. Will be used to rationalize not doing something to address GHG levels.
But that has nothing whatsoever to do with Jervons.


This whole notion that an effort to do something good will inevitably, “result in activities which tend to lessen or undo the benefits” is just as wrong as Jervons was.

For example, could you tell me what the negative consequences were of:

If you can’t tell me how these had the opposite result of what they were intended to accomplish, then your whole premise is faulty, and we can just forget about about Mr. Jervons and his “paradox.”

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Geoengineering experiment cancelled amid patent row joshcryer Jun 2012 #1
A charter for geoengineering joshcryer Jun 2012 #2
... and I've been there with you ... Nihil Jun 2012 #14
+1 drokhole Jun 2012 #15
From 7 years ago dipsydoodle Jun 2012 #3
Nobody actually needs to SEE the stars. That's what we have satellites for... GliderGuider Jun 2012 #4
I'm not sure resort is the right word The2ndWheel Jun 2012 #5
Mind you, this is just one scenario. (i.e. adding sufates to the upper atmosphere.) OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #6
Other schemes are not cheap. Global dimming happens for free* when you pollute. joshcryer Jun 2012 #18
Even this scheme actually involves some expense OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #19
I didn't say it was free, I said it was cheaper than the alternatives. joshcryer Jun 2012 #23
"Global dimming happens for free* when you pollute." OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #24
Did you not see the asterisk? joshcryer Jun 2012 #25
Sure did! OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #28
Jevon's Paradox would be a useful parable here. IDemo Jun 2012 #7
I am tired of “Jevons’ Paradox” OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #9
Then we're disagreed on the issue IDemo Jun 2012 #10
In the first place, this is a misapplication of “Jervons Paradox” OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #11
You must have missed the word "parable" in my post IDemo Jun 2012 #12
Jervons was wrong OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #13
Never mind aesthetics caraher Jun 2012 #8
What Are People Really Talking About When They Talk About "Geo-Engineering"? drokhole Jun 2012 #16
Aerosols are the cheapest way to do it, and thus is how it is going to be done. joshcryer Jun 2012 #17
These approaches are also not effective OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #20
Reducing incoming sunlight does not help with ocean acidification, drm604 Jun 2012 #21
Correct! OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #22
Nothing to see here... joshcryer Jun 2012 #26
It's not that there’s nothing to see here OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #27
Scientists warn geoengineering may disrupt rainfall joshcryer Jul 2012 #29
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Geoengineering would turn...»Reply #13