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mikelewis

(4,099 posts)
32. Why this is actually inline with physics...
Tue Dec 5, 2023, 10:00 PM
Dec 2023

Explain why someone would at first think this violated the laws of physics and now why it doesn't

ChatGPT
Your friend's scenario with the curved barrel might initially seem to violate the laws of physics, but upon closer examination, it actually adheres to them. Here's why:

Why It Might Seem to Violate Physics:

Perceived Violation of Conservation of Momentum:

At first glance, it may seem that redirecting the bullet back towards the shooter, thereby seemingly reversing its momentum while still maintaining the shooter's forward momentum, violates the law of conservation of momentum. This law states that the total momentum of a closed system must remain constant if no external forces are acting on it. The idea of shooting, then catching or redirecting the bullet, and not being pushed back to the original position might appear as if momentum is not conserved.
Misinterpretation of Newton's Third Law:

Newton's third law states that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. One might initially think that redirecting the bullet directly back towards the shooter would cancel out the initial recoil completely, which seems counterintuitive because it suggests a net zero movement, despite the obvious action of firing a bullet.
Why It Actually Doesn't Violate Physics:

Conservation of Momentum Still Applies:

In reality, the scenario still respects the conservation of momentum. When the astronaut fires the gun, the total momentum of the system (astronaut + gun + bullet) is conserved. The bullet moves forward, and the astronaut moves backward. When the bullet is redirected back and caught or hits the astronaut, its momentum is transferred to the astronaut. This transfer adds to the astronaut’s momentum in the same direction as the recoil, not canceling it out.
Newton's Third Law in Action:

Newton's third law is indeed at play here. When the bullet is redirected, it exerts a force on the barrel, and the barrel exerts an equal and opposite force on the bullet. However, this interaction involves complex forces due to the curvature of the barrel and does not directly translate into a simple forward or backward movement of the astronaut.
Energy Considerations:

Energy loss through heat, sound, and friction, especially in the curved barrel scenario, plays a significant role. These energy losses mean that not all the energy from the gunshot is efficiently used for propulsion. This aligns with the principles of physics, as energy conservation doesn't imply that all energy must be converted to useful work.
In conclusion, while the scenario might seem to challenge basic physics principles at first, a more detailed analysis shows that it actually adheres to these principles, including the conservation of momentum and Newton's third law. The apparent paradox arises from a simplified view of the situation and is resolved when considering the full complexity of the forces and energy transformations involved.

Isn't this forum supposed to be at least partially science-based? NCIndie Dec 2023 #1
How lovely... and your proof that it's wrong is? mikelewis Dec 2023 #2
I really hope this is all tongue-in-cheek. If so, that's one for you! Just in case... NCIndie Dec 2023 #5
Ok... please read a little farther down the post please... There is no plan for a shotgun based propulsion design... mikelewis Dec 2023 #7
I read it before I posted. NCIndie Dec 2023 #9
I'm not an AI robot and your challenge was based on scientific inquiry. I responded in kind... mikelewis Dec 2023 #11
The recoil JackSabbath Dec 2023 #28
The recoil pulls the gun away from you? Indeed... but not completely.... mikelewis Dec 2023 #29
Interesting topic.... Think. Again. Dec 2023 #3
I think you're missing the point... none of those are useful for extended space travel... or can reach similar speeds mikelewis Dec 2023 #4
My apologies... Think. Again. Dec 2023 #15
All of those have a terrible carbon footprint. mikelewis Dec 2023 #21
It's an interesting concept... Think. Again. Dec 2023 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author Duppers Dec 2023 #25
That is one way to win an arguement... mikelewis Dec 2023 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author Duppers Dec 2023 #27
My apologies. Duppers Dec 2023 #34
Interesting. You mean no CO2 emissions during the operation of the vehicle. NCIndie Dec 2023 #6
This isn't about the energy required to run it.. that's still a problem... for a bit... we first have to see.... mikelewis Dec 2023 #8
Innovation starts with skeptics being skeptical. I'll take that role. NCIndie Dec 2023 #10
I built this idea fighting A for the past year... lol... so thank you I do appreciate skepticism. It built this idea. mikelewis Dec 2023 #12
Be combative! NCIndie Dec 2023 #13
That is precisely why I am here... I have had my ass handed to me so many times on this forum.... LOL mikelewis Dec 2023 #14
He gets more than combative Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #57
Not if construction is done... Think. Again. Dec 2023 #16
Ok. Namely....? NCIndie Dec 2023 #17
Namely what?... Think. Again. Dec 2023 #18
You're going to build a car with zero carbon footprint because of renewables+nuclear? NCIndie Dec 2023 #19
Yeah.... Think. Again. Dec 2023 #20
What about the force the projectile is exerting against the curved barrel? sl8 Dec 2023 #22
Correct! However... it's much less than you think... I was shocked too mikelewis Dec 2023 #23
I hate ads 😏 mikelewis Dec 2023 #24
And to prove that... here's all the math... mikelewis Dec 2023 #30
Here, I think, is the fundamental error - whether ChatGPT's or yours, I can't tell from the formatting muriel_volestrangler Dec 2023 #73
Well... if you say it... it must be so... mikelewis Dec 2023 #74
If you really want to understand, please take just one physics class caraher Dec 2023 #75
Holy monkey shit batman... you cracked it... fuck me mikelewis Dec 2023 #76
Subtext... mikelewis Dec 2023 #77
I did make one mistake caraher Dec 2023 #80
Post removed Post removed Dec 2023 #82
OK, some numbers for position (Python? Why Python? This is a physics problem, not a numerical procedure) muriel_volestrangler Dec 2023 #81
After firing the total momentum is 0... mikelewis Dec 2023 #83
Can you try to write better, please? Your questions, or messages, are obscured by your style. muriel_volestrangler Dec 2023 #84
And now specifically to your point... mikelewis Dec 2023 #31
Why this is actually inline with physics... mikelewis Dec 2023 #32
The apparent paradox arises from a simplified view of the situation and is resolved when considering the full complexity mikelewis Dec 2023 #33
This part of the argument is where chatgpt is completely botching the physics. Salviati Dec 2023 #37
I said that outloud and a goat appeared in my living room... mikelewis Dec 2023 #38
Chat GPT is not a content expert. Salviati Dec 2023 #36
You are most certainly correct... mikelewis Dec 2023 #39
I don't understand, what does the letter 'O' have to do with it!? OKIsItJustMe Dec 2023 #40
You are most certainly correct... mikelewis Dec 2023 #61
I wouldn't trust ChatGPT to count my toes accurately. It wasn't written to do that. OKIsItJustMe Dec 2023 #41
This is one of those things... Salviati Dec 2023 #43
Indeed! "What if!?..." OKIsItJustMe Dec 2023 #45
Breaking the tyranny of the rocket equation would be a hell of a thing! Salviati Dec 2023 #46
Interesting... mikelewis Dec 2023 #44
It's an EmDrive. Better tests eliminate it. Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #54
There's still some dispute OKIsItJustMe Dec 2023 #58
The IVO has test in orbit, past the minimum 1 month pre-test orbit Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #60
Frankly, I don't expect it to succeed either OKIsItJustMe Dec 2023 #63
Here's an experiment I am eager to see the results of OKIsItJustMe Dec 2023 #42
Very cool... mikelewis Dec 2023 #47
Here's the fix... mikelewis Dec 2023 #48
The problem is you have to carry those anvils. Salviati Dec 2023 #52
You only need two anvils... mikelewis Dec 2023 #53
"They're trying to move mass with electrons... they need to move mass with mass" Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #55
Call me "Mikey Poopie Pants!" mikelewis Dec 2023 #56
He did refute them, and you acknowledged as much OKIsItJustMe Dec 2023 #59
I lied... mikelewis Dec 2023 #67
ok Ptah Dec 2023 #68
Why would I pretend such a thing exists? mikelewis Dec 2023 #69
This might help: Ptah Dec 2023 #70
Not logic. "view count" is not equal to "copy-paste" nor equal to "don't understand the math" Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #62
Why on earth do you think I would be trying to use logic against you? mikelewis Dec 2023 #64
If you want to be taken seriously, and you clearly do, then don't be childish. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #65
I'm rubber and you're glue... mikelewis Dec 2023 #66
Please read: An Alternative Theory of Inertia will Get Tested in Space OKIsItJustMe Dec 2023 #49
Yeah... mikelewis Dec 2023 #50
scrolling hack mikelewis Dec 2023 #51
Mag lev trains use electricity Progressive dog Dec 2023 #71
You are of course correct... mikelewis Dec 2023 #72
I like ColinC Dec 2023 #78
Thank you... this is fun as hell 😃 mikelewis Dec 2023 #79
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