Environment & Energy

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)

65. Here's something that's that's suggestive of a chaotic flip:

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:41 AM

Oct 2012

Speck Tater mentioned the operation of the double scroll attractor above:

The history of birth rates and death rates across the collapse of the Soviet Union suggests a similar rapid flip from one quasi-stable state (high birth/low death) to its inverse (low birth/high death). The entire transition happened in about 10 years. There are many ways of framing such a shift, but I thought the parallel with with the chaotic attractor was interesting enough to note.

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What Environmental Reporting Leaves Out [View all] GliderGuider Oct 2012 OP

"the system will deteriorate with increasing acceleration" Ghost Dog Oct 2012 #1

Having studied the mathematics of chaos theory, Speck Tater Oct 2012 #2

Sorry, but not at all plausible. AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #4

Science often goes counter to common sense. Speck Tater Oct 2012 #11

The science says I'm largely correct. AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #12

Whatever. Speck Tater Oct 2012 #13

NOAA begs to differ... GliderGuider Oct 2012 #21

The main problem is with scenarios like..... AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #29

A very simple dynamic system can flip. reusrename Oct 2012 #34

That's not quite what I'm reading. AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #41

There is a small, but very common, misconception contained in what you say here. reusrename Oct 2012 #54

Glad you cleared that up. AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #57

You're no less correct than the article in the OP. reusrename Oct 2012 #32

But what evidence is there...... AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #43

Not to beat your dead horse, but RobertEarl Oct 2012 #45

Some good points, but....... AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #46

I'm not clear on something GliderGuider Oct 2012 #53

Yup! reusrename Oct 2012 #55

GWP of methane is much higher, and then it oxidizes into CO2 anyway. GliderGuider Oct 2012 #56

What I'm saying is, no plausible argument exists..... AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #58

Calthrate gun hype? RobertEarl Oct 2012 #59

It's a theoretical scenario. AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #60

Theoretical? RobertEarl Oct 2012 #61

Yes, I get that. n/t AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #62

Just in case. I will repeat RobertEarl Oct 2012 #63

Exactly! reusrename Oct 2012 #64

Not the best article I've come across. AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #3

Not the most honest reply that I've come across. Nihil Oct 2012 #6

Notice, though, that I never once claimed that this article talked about Venus or extinction.... AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #7

So that makes much of your post a red herring. GliderGuider Oct 2012 #9

Birds and the bees, flowers and the trees RobertEarl Oct 2012 #5

I'm not at all convinced that climate change is anywhere near the only culprit........ AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #8

Of course it's not. GliderGuider Oct 2012 #10

Amazing how closely the Chaos Theory, ... CRH Oct 2012 #14

Not really true. AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #15

You need to expand your horizons, I think. GliderGuider Oct 2012 #16

I do very well realize there are problems, but..... AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #19

This message was self-deleted by its author GliderGuider Oct 2012 #20

If the patterns of the climate shift so rapidly, ... CRH Oct 2012 #17

I'm not exactly optimistic, CRH. AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #18

You consistently have posts that are optimistic, ... CRH Oct 2012 #22

In your opinion, perhaps so. AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #25

Addendum to post 22, ... CRH Oct 2012 #23

+1 GliderGuider Oct 2012 #24

Cheerleading much? AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #27

For fuck's sake. AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #26

There is nothing we can do RobertEarl Oct 2012 #28

See #30 nt tama Oct 2012 #31

Robert, scientific research says we CAN. AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #36

I'll tell you how RobertEarl Oct 2012 #37

Now we're cooking. AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #39

Heh, not me man RobertEarl Oct 2012 #44

Re: "if you point fingers at your culprits, make sure you are without sin." AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #47

Transition tama Oct 2012 #50

Terra preta and forest gardening tama Oct 2012 #30

Terra preta is the only thing I've found so far that I think might help overall. GliderGuider Oct 2012 #33

Hugelkultur tama Oct 2012 #35

Permaculture is a remarkable philosophy. GliderGuider Oct 2012 #38

I definitely agree. AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #40

Remember "End of Suburbia"? tama Oct 2012 #49

Absolutely! At the end of March I heard American activist Charles Simmons speak about this. GliderGuider Oct 2012 #51

From what I've seen tama Oct 2012 #52

Frickin' awesome stuff, tama, thank you for posting that. =) AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #42

And it's picking up tama Oct 2012 #48

Here's something that's that's suggestive of a chaotic flip: GliderGuider Oct 2012 #65

Chaotic Flip: pscot Oct 2012 #66

I've never understood the value of chaos theory as a predictor wtmusic Oct 2012 #67

No prediction, just an illustrative analogy. GliderGuider Oct 2012 #68

Thanks wtmusic Oct 2012 #70

TBH, you're probably mostly correct. AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #69

I got about 80 pages into James Gleick's book wtmusic Oct 2012 #71

No problem, I think we're on the same page. AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #72

Not a theory, but a paradigm, Iterate Oct 2012 #73

That was a very illuminating contribution. GliderGuider Oct 2012 #74