Environment & Energy

NoOneMan

(4,795 posts)

23. Wealth is a cultural construct and quite alien to many pre-agricultural societies

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 05:04 PM

Nov 2012

Ask some pre-agriculturists what wealth is, and they might respond:

A healthy stream
A freshly killed animal
Many sons
Good weather

How can some people value the accumulation of stuff if their way of life excludes accumulation as necessary or even good?

Some theories state the first "wealth" was really just seeds, and giving them out to new farmers was the first debt that in turned drove the accumulation of more seeds for the following year. This is the most satisfactory answer I have seen for the foundation of economics, as well as civilization IMO. If this is the case, wealth was only created once agriculture practices were in place and the granary was created.

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Tyndall Center Director Anderson: Rapid Emissions Reduction Hard: 4-6C Far, Far Worse [View all] hatrack Nov 2012 OP

Ungrowth: the new paradigm. pscot Nov 2012 #1

Not only can we not have economic growth, ... CRH Nov 2012 #2

You don't need to eliminate growth to help fix the problem. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #5

Can you point to one program or event that has reduced global CO2 emissions, ... CRH Nov 2012 #10

CRH, you don't get it. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #18

I think it is you who needs to wake up, ... CRH Nov 2012 #42

I think we got off on a bad footing here. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #47

If more people catch on to what is really needed, NoOneMan Nov 2012 #3

True, but artifically stopping growth isn't amongst the solutions. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #6

Everyone is causing the problem NoOneMan Nov 2012 #8

It doesn't really work like that. The 1% hoards and MORE energy gets used. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #17

Supply-Side, Trickle-Down Economics is false NoOneMan Nov 2012 #26

I never said Trickle-Down was plausible. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #29

"The 1% hoards and MORE energy gets used." NoOneMan Nov 2012 #33

Maybe. I just don't have the faith that it'll necessarily be true, though. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #50

Why red flags? NoOneMan Nov 2012 #52

"Why is shutting down the global economy such a terrible thing?" AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #54

I am talking about an organized decline globally NoOneMan Nov 2012 #55

False hope? AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #56

false hope is saying we can consume energy to fix an over-consumption problem NoOneMan Nov 2012 #57

I love the smell of truth... GliderGuider Nov 2012 #4

Good article. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #7

Consuming less has been a substantial factor in emission reductions during the recession NoOneMan Nov 2012 #9

Yes, but if true, this was more extreme luck than anything else. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #19

That assumes that humans will always exploit all available energy and negate surplus NoOneMan Nov 2012 #24

What's all this spiel about 'infinite' growth, anyway? AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #25

That is civilization's driving goal NoOneMan Nov 2012 #28

Both the article and the comments are deeply flawed IMO. GliderGuider Nov 2012 #11

I feel one of the "fake" solutions is a real solution NoOneMan Nov 2012 #12

Every realistic idea I've seen so far... GliderGuider Nov 2012 #13

But that could change NoOneMan Nov 2012 #14

No doubt it will GliderGuider Nov 2012 #15

Hi GG, I don' t have much time but let me take a shot, ... CRH Nov 2012 #16

I agree as far as it goes GliderGuider Nov 2012 #21

Wealth is a cultural construct and quite alien to many pre-agricultural societies NoOneMan Nov 2012 #23

This message was self-deleted by its author CRH Nov 2012 #59

Here is my kooky, quasi theory: NoOneMan Nov 2012 #22

That's a very well-appointed rabbit hole you live in. GliderGuider Nov 2012 #27

Quick question: NoOneMan Nov 2012 #31

Well, here's one example: GliderGuider Nov 2012 #35

Hey you two, the posts in this mini thread, 21-35, ... CRH Nov 2012 #60

You're welcome, I guess. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #61

Pessimism is understandable. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #30

Bouncing back doesn't necessarily include humans bouncing with it FYI NoOneMan Nov 2012 #32

Actually, it kinda does. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #37

The thing about the aftermath of Toba is this: GliderGuider Nov 2012 #39

Re: "The resources of the planet were entirely undepleted." AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #40

How do you know? GliderGuider Nov 2012 #43

Well. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #46

You have so much faith in the ability of humans to rebuild after complete collapse NoOneMan Nov 2012 #45

Of course, it IS more complex than that, BUT........ AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #48

I see little difference anymore between these lines of thought: NoOneMan Nov 2012 #49

Cheat Sheet Answers: Number one is an outright liar and Number Two isn't even short-sighted. =) AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #51

Increased efficiency means more available energy, meaning cheaper energy, resulting in more growth NoOneMan Nov 2012 #53

Two quick thoughts GliderGuider Nov 2012 #34

An interesting way of putting things, I suppose. n/t AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #36

We're not hitting 10*C by 2100, especially not if we get things done. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #20

Bank on the business as usual scenario, ... CRH Nov 2012 #38

My response. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #41

A bit of exaggeration in parts, don't you think? ... CRH Nov 2012 #44

Just a quick comment to everyone who posted overnight (since about reply #10) ... Nihil Nov 2012 #58

Heh, no prob I guess. =) AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #62