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Environment & Energy
In reply to the discussion: "It's worse than we thought." Sound familiar? [View all]AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)60. Well.....
Neither of these situations apply to fossil fuel use. It is the lifeblood of the global economy; replacements are not available; if replacements do become available it will require changes to global energy infrastructure; nations see a competitive advantage in not agreeing to restrictions or changes, and have a sovereign right to refuse;
Some of this may be true to some extent, but there's a demonstrated, accepted risk with ACC, too(even though the deniers will claim otherwise!). And there certainly are viable replacements to fossil fuels. Hemp is just one of the more popular examples. Had it not been for the dirty dealings of certain parties over the years, alternative fuels would likely already be readily available on a large scale as well.
The biggest problem remains to be the status quo; the one bit of good news is that Hurricane Sandy appears to have provided a major blow in favor of US, for once.
Hell, even someone like you, who claims to get it, steadfastly refuses to allow worst-case scenarios into the conversation and urges caution in accepting dire projections.
Caution, yes, but not the kind you're thinking of. What I DO caution against, is telling people that the worst-case scenarios are inevitable and that there's nothing we do can about it, sort of like what irresponsible muttonheads like Guy McPherson and Malcolm P.R. Light have been throwing around lately.
My personal stance is, yes, we should keep the worst-case scenarios in mind, but not to let it really dominate our thinking at the same time, while also keeping the "Precautionary Principle" in mind: The worst-case scenarios(6-7*C if most or all feedbacks play out by 2100 or so) may not come to pass but it is rather prudent to be prepared for the worst anyhow.
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I can agree that negative feedbacks are probably still somewhat poorly understood, but.....
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#10
You've never seen any proof that they've been doing research into negative feedbacks?
GliderGuider
Nov 2012
#18
No, I didn't say that research hadn't been done(duh!). I did say NOT ENOUGH research.
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#19
"Awhile back?" The fucking NSIDC head said that sea ice won't melt until the 2030s!
joshcryer
Nov 2012
#33
"You are casting uncertainty and doubt on the whole AGW awareness effort through your presence here"
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#24
I'm not saying things can't change, I am saying they are unlikely to change.
joshcryer
Nov 2012
#112
You want us to worry more about someone exploring positive feedbacks to their logical conclusion
cprise
Nov 2012
#42
TBH, having read the paper, 25 does seem to be a tad on the high side........
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#54
True to a point, but so does your assertion of near 100% probability as well. n/t
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#51
Was the Clean Air Act like telling an entire nation they will have to be 10% poorer?
NoOneMan
Nov 2012
#56
No, and look at what happened when CFC production stopped in the mid-'90s.
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#57
There's just one problem with your argument: Alternative fuels have been barely implemented at all.
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#63
"And we can keep building & developing. We just need to do it in a smarter way,"
NoOneMan
Nov 2012
#74
BTW, philosophically speaking, what is so good about the growth you think we need?
NoOneMan
Nov 2012
#80
Well, it IS true that curbing population growth wouldn't solve this problem alone........
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#106
"Ah, you are only thinking in terms of human life and locally." Not really.
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#104
What room do we have for reforestation? Where are we going to plant the hemp?
NoOneMan
Nov 2012
#120
Re: "I really wonder if you have taken time to step back and look at the entire system..."
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#121
Regarding carbon intensity, that graph painted an incorrectly rosy picture
GliderGuider
Nov 2012
#67
I am one of those who think that the worst-case scenarios are the dominant probability.
GliderGuider
Nov 2012
#64
*Some* of this may be true, but hemp can be grown with food crops, and in fact, is a food crop......
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#81
Not in the Tundra itself, but definitely to some extent in the SubArctic north, right around........
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#92
So 40%-50% of Sweden's GDP comes from exporting to countries who also cut their emissions?
NoOneMan
Nov 2012
#95
The point is that your example does not illustrate energy reduction resulted in a GDP increase
NoOneMan
Nov 2012
#102
There's a big problem with powering down, though: It's still a "silver bullet" type situation.
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#105
Let's hope this report sticks with the science as the others have done.....
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#115