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Environment & Energy
In reply to the discussion: "It's worse than we thought." Sound familiar? [View all]AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)92. Not in the Tundra itself, but definitely to some extent in the SubArctic north, right around........
the latitudes of Whitehorse and Yellowknife, though, it can be conceded that it'd probably be easier to grow it around Edmonton or Saskatoon (around 53* and 52*N, respectively)
This will never happen so 7-8 billion of us will fuckn die
I don't think so. 1-2 billion? Maybe, and that alone would be a great tragedy. But 7-8 billion? Only with a full-scale nuclear war and at leastone other major disaster, such as Yellowstone erupting, or Apophis hitting East Asia, or whatever, MIGHT get there. Might.
(scientifically supported relationship between economic output and atmospheric carbon)
Somewhat so, to a degree. But again, they are not completely tied in altogether. If I may, look at what happened with Sweden's carbon tax, when it was instituted in 1991(all credit goes to Wikipedia, and associated sources.).
"In January 1991, Sweden enacted a CO2 tax of 0.25 SEK/kg ($100 or EUR 72 per ton) on the use of oil, coal, natural gas, liquefied petroleum gas, petrol, and aviation fuel used in domestic travel. Industrial users paid half the rate (between 1993 and 1997, 25% of the rate), and certain high-energy industries such as commercial horticulture, mining, manufacturing and the pulp and paper industry were fully exempted from these new taxes.
In 1997 the rate was raised to 0.365 SEK/kg ($150 per ton) of CO2.[112][113] In 2007, the tax was SEK 930 (EUR 101) per ton of CO2.[114] The full tax is paid in transport, space heating, and non-combined heat and power generation. Owing to the many exemptions, oil accounts for 96% of the revenues from the tax, although it produces less than three-quarters of CO2 from fuel combustion.
The tax is credited with spurring a significant move from hydrocarbon fuels to biomass. As Swedish Society for Nature Conservation climate change expert Emma Lindberg said, It was the one major reason that steered society towards climate-friendly solutions. It made polluting more expensive and focused people on finding energy-efficient solutions.[115][116]
It increased the use of bioenergy, said University of Lund Professor Thomas Johansson, former director of energy and climate at the UN Development Programme. It had a major impact in particular on heating. Every city in Sweden uses district heating. Before, coal or oil were used for district heating. Now biomass is used, usually waste from forests and forest industries.
Economic growth appears to be unaffected. Between 1990 and 2006, Swedens economy grew by 44-46 percent (approx 2,8% annually)"
If the Swedes can do it, then America definitely has a chance as well. The biggest problem, as I've stated, is when will we finally get our acts together? And certainly, no amount of handwringing or doom-mongering from the likes of Light or McPherson, will help us any more than the antics of deniers like the idiot at WUWT, and those who enable them(i.e. the Koch Bros., etc.).
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I can agree that negative feedbacks are probably still somewhat poorly understood, but.....
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#10
You've never seen any proof that they've been doing research into negative feedbacks?
GliderGuider
Nov 2012
#18
No, I didn't say that research hadn't been done(duh!). I did say NOT ENOUGH research.
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#19
"Awhile back?" The fucking NSIDC head said that sea ice won't melt until the 2030s!
joshcryer
Nov 2012
#33
"You are casting uncertainty and doubt on the whole AGW awareness effort through your presence here"
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#24
I'm not saying things can't change, I am saying they are unlikely to change.
joshcryer
Nov 2012
#112
You want us to worry more about someone exploring positive feedbacks to their logical conclusion
cprise
Nov 2012
#42
TBH, having read the paper, 25 does seem to be a tad on the high side........
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#54
True to a point, but so does your assertion of near 100% probability as well. n/t
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#51
Was the Clean Air Act like telling an entire nation they will have to be 10% poorer?
NoOneMan
Nov 2012
#56
No, and look at what happened when CFC production stopped in the mid-'90s.
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#57
There's just one problem with your argument: Alternative fuels have been barely implemented at all.
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#63
"And we can keep building & developing. We just need to do it in a smarter way,"
NoOneMan
Nov 2012
#74
BTW, philosophically speaking, what is so good about the growth you think we need?
NoOneMan
Nov 2012
#80
Well, it IS true that curbing population growth wouldn't solve this problem alone........
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#106
"Ah, you are only thinking in terms of human life and locally." Not really.
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#104
What room do we have for reforestation? Where are we going to plant the hemp?
NoOneMan
Nov 2012
#120
Re: "I really wonder if you have taken time to step back and look at the entire system..."
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#121
Regarding carbon intensity, that graph painted an incorrectly rosy picture
GliderGuider
Nov 2012
#67
I am one of those who think that the worst-case scenarios are the dominant probability.
GliderGuider
Nov 2012
#64
*Some* of this may be true, but hemp can be grown with food crops, and in fact, is a food crop......
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#81
Not in the Tundra itself, but definitely to some extent in the SubArctic north, right around........
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#92
So 40%-50% of Sweden's GDP comes from exporting to countries who also cut their emissions?
NoOneMan
Nov 2012
#95
The point is that your example does not illustrate energy reduction resulted in a GDP increase
NoOneMan
Nov 2012
#102
There's a big problem with powering down, though: It's still a "silver bullet" type situation.
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#105
Let's hope this report sticks with the science as the others have done.....
AverageJoe90
Nov 2012
#115