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GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
4. That's your prerogative - this thumbnail assessment isn't the Truth.
Fri Nov 16, 2012, 12:08 PM
Nov 2012

I agree that other curves could be fitted. However, in order to have a chance to escape a +4C hell, we're probably limited to looking at sigmoid/logistic curves with some sort of built-in saturation effect. Do human needs for energy saturate? There are external events that can suppress them, but I don't know of any organic reason why that should be so. Energy use and CO2 emissions have grown at a faster rate than population for the last 100 years, which is a good indication that the curve is open-ended.

See this post for my look at open-ended, super-linear scaling.

Human population growth does in fact appear to be following a sigmoid curve (even though it's going to saturate too late for comfort), but the growth of energy and CO2 does not. That's worrying, because if it doesn't stop rising on its own we will depend on external forces like political policy-making to modify its trajectory. Or just wait for events to modify it for us.

Anyway, the main point of this graph was to show that we would not necessarily "run out of" fossil fuels before we hit extremely dangerous climate territory, and that the possibilities definitely include us blowing well past even the most pessimistic IPCC scenario.

Recommendations

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You may want to redo this at some point. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #1
This is the curve that Bill McKibben's "Do the Math" tour is all about. GliderGuider Nov 2012 #2
Six Degrees and The God Species should be required reading for policy makers wtmusic Nov 2012 #5
To what extent do you think we could trigger another Permian extinction? cprise Nov 2012 #8
I have Ward's book - it's a terrifying read... GliderGuider Nov 2012 #16
The projections I have seen put us at over 900ppm CO2 by 2100 cprise Nov 2012 #34
I think our worst-case scenario (at the moment) is 1200 ppm by 2100. GliderGuider Nov 2012 #35
That seems too hot to avoid a drastic change in biochemistry cprise Nov 2012 #40
Mostly true, but there's a difference: AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #12
There are a number of species that lived through that level of warming cprise Nov 2012 #14
What honestly makes you think we can't? AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #15
It's actually not a compliment to the species that we survived Toba. GliderGuider Nov 2012 #23
Well, I'm now convinced that more research is needed re: Toba at any rate. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #25
I briefly told you what cprise Nov 2012 #33
I don't think you've really understood what I've been trying to say. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #36
What a bunch of sloppy posturing cprise Nov 2012 #39
Sure, sure. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #41
We probably run out of life as well before then NoOneMan Nov 2012 #6
Haven't gotten to it just yet. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #9
It would surely be the end of civilization as we know it NoOneMan Nov 2012 #11
You keep using that word "fact," XemaSab Nov 2012 #13
I know full well what I'm talking about here. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #17
That's not what you said XemaSab Nov 2012 #18
OK, I do realize I could have been clearer. However, my point does still stand. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #19
The stuff coming out of your keyboard XemaSab Nov 2012 #20
On the contrary. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #21
I'll go with the IPCC scenarios caraher Nov 2012 #3
That's your prerogative - this thumbnail assessment isn't the Truth. GliderGuider Nov 2012 #4
This message was self-deleted by its author NoOneMan Nov 2012 #7
Very true. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #10
I'm unwilling to extrapolate out to 2100, based soley on data for the past 20-odd years OKIsItJustMe Nov 2012 #22
Stopping the extrapolation at 2015 leaves far too much wiggle room for the diminishers. GliderGuider Nov 2012 #24
That’s worse! OKIsItJustMe Nov 2012 #29
The point is to present what is possibly the worst case scenario imaginable. GliderGuider Nov 2012 #30
I suggest a simple graph for 1980-2015 OKIsItJustMe Nov 2012 #31
I prefer to keep it in line with the IPCC projections that go out to 2100. GliderGuider Nov 2012 #32
Me neither. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #26
You don't trust Bill McKibben? GliderGuider Nov 2012 #27
It seems I made a mistake. I apologize. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #28
On the lighter side... caraher Nov 2012 #37
Yer not going to like my next trick very much either, then. GliderGuider Nov 2012 #38
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