Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

PamW

(1,825 posts)
97. NO - because I KNOW better
Sat Dec 31, 2011, 11:21 AM
Dec 2011

Did it ever occur to you that the US commercial nuclear fuel cycle was developed to produce bombs
---------------------------------------------------------

NO - because I KNOW better.

Every OUNCE of Plutonium and Highly Enriched Uranium that are in US nuclear weapons came from US Government facilities; BY LAW. The Plutonium was made at either Hanford or Savannah River. The Uranium came from the Government facilities at Oak Ridge, either the K-25 plant or the Y-12 plant.

The same plant that enriches Uranium to very high levels >90% enrichment can be used to enrich to lower levels 3% - 4%; you just tap off the cascade earlier. So in essence, the nuclear weapon program provides material to the commercial program; NOT the other way around.

NONE of the Plutonium in US nuclear weapons came from the commercial power reactors. Commercial power reactors make "reactor grade" plutonium which is not suitable for nuclear weapons. The speaker in the video in the OP makes this point just before the 24 minute mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bbyr7jZOllI

Besides, the Government has all the much more desirable "weapons grade" Plutonium from the Hanford and Savannah River facilities; in fact they have a lot in storage that are not in weapons; they have no need for the inferior "reactor grade" Plutonium.

Two of the companies that design reactors, GE and Westinghouse; also were the contractors for the naval reactor design facilities at Knolls Atomic Power Lab and Bettis Atomic Power Lab. However, this was basically the Navy tapping into the expertise of the commercial sector. It's actually no different than the Air Force buying fighters and bombers from Boeing when Boeing is the company that designs and builds airliners for the commercial airline industry. Do we somehow consider that we are supporting the military when we buy a ticket on United or American airlines just because United and American bought their airliners from the same entity that makes fighters and bombers for the military; namely Boeing?

Besides, the GE boiling water reactor is totally unsuitable for use in a naval vessel. The GE boiling water reactor has a "free surface" that is a boundary between liquid water and steam. In a naval vessel, with the pitching and rolling; this surface would slosh around and you would not have a stable power distribution. On land, that is no problem.

You are in ERROR in saying that North Korea produced plutonium from a power reactor. It was NOT a power reactor, but a specially built graphite-moderated "production reactor" that looks more like the graphite-moderated production reactors the USA has at Hanford ( which produced our weapons material ) than any resemblance to a commercial power reactor.

You are in ERROR on the Pakistan program. Pakistan's nuclear weapons are Uranium bombs. The ONLY thing you need for that is an enrichment program. You don't use reactors when you make Uranium bombs.

Likewise for Iran. The facilities at Natanz, which is an enrichment plant, is the true nuclear weapons facility for the Iranians. The Iranians are working on a Uranium bomb, for which they do NOT need a reactor in the development thereof.

The Iranians, with the help of Russia, are building a power reactor at Bushehr. However, the Bushehr reactor is NOT a component of the Iranian nuclear weapons program. They are just using Bushehr for political cover to say that the Natanz facility is making fuel for Bushehr rather than making fuel for the Iranian nuclear weapons.

So - NO; the US commercial reactor program does NOTING to aid in the making of nuclear weapons. In fact, it is the other way around; the facilities for the weapons program are used to make fuel for reactors.

But the US nuclear weapons complex of design labs and production facilities is self-sufficient and not dependent on the commercial program. In fact, it is that way, BY LAW. The Atomic Energy Act of 1954 provides for that.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

So what's the narrative here? SpoonFed Dec 2011 #1
The "narrative" is that not all nuclear power options are the same wtmusic Dec 2011 #7
But all of the nuclear power options HAVE been evaluated kristopher Dec 2011 #9
Ha ha ha. Nice try. txlibdem Dec 2011 #10
Nothing more to be done... PamW Dec 2011 #13
Uh, no, they haven't. It's all been LWRs and fast spectrum. joshcryer Dec 2011 #22
Wrong as usual.... PamW Dec 2011 #23
That's not after TMI? joshcryer Dec 2011 #25
Pg 75, 76 MIT "The Future of Nuclear Power" 2003 kristopher Dec 2011 #26
Note 1 pg 17 MIT "The Future of the Nuclear Fuel Cycle" 2010 kristopher Dec 2011 #27
LFTR? Maslo55 Dec 2011 #86
Yes, I'm not looking at economics, I'm looking at environmental considerations. joshcryer Dec 2011 #28
You are hyping thin air. kristopher Dec 2011 #30
700+ environmental organizations think that we should sit on nuclear waste... joshcryer Dec 2011 #32
Read what MIT said. kristopher Dec 2011 #34
MIT says long term closed cycle may become something. joshcryer Dec 2011 #35
1979 - 1994 is also after TMI PamW Dec 2011 #39
Fast reactor funding dropped dramatically after TMI. joshcryer Dec 2011 #40
I watch the video - I wonder if you did... PamW Dec 2011 #42
Nice video PamW Dec 2011 #43
This is really untrue. Yo_Mama Jan 2012 #143
EVs on the grid... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #144
And you know that how? kristopher Jan 2012 #145
Are these the same people who... SpoonFed Dec 2011 #19
The DOD wanted all reactors to be dual purpose -- provide plutonium for weapons, as well as power. eppur_se_muova Dec 2011 #2
BALONEY!!! PamW Dec 2011 #12
Documentation: PamW Dec 2011 #18
Hold the mayo... Wilms Dec 2011 #24
Watts Bar is a commercial power reactor jpak Dec 2011 #44
Elaboration... PamW Dec 2011 #47
Oh yeah - the same uranium enrichment plants that produced HEU for bombs jpak Dec 2011 #45
False equation... PamW Dec 2011 #46
Iran & North Korea jpak Dec 2011 #49
Did it ever occur to you.... PamW Dec 2011 #62
Did it ever occur to you that the US commercial nuclear fuel cycle was developed to produce bombs jpak Dec 2011 #91
NO - because I KNOW better PamW Dec 2011 #97
North Korea's plutonium production reactor had an electrical generating capacity of 5 MWe jpak Dec 2011 #98
Hardly a "power reactor" PamW Dec 2011 #99
What's the significance? PamW Dec 2011 #101
That dubious honor goes to Admiral Rickoven txlibdem Dec 2011 #3
We need to give this technology a serious try. LAGC Dec 2011 #4
The way to wean ourselves off fossil fuels... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #5
We cannot Maslo55 Dec 2011 #87
Prove - beyond a shadow of a doubt... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #93
renewables Maslo55 Dec 2011 #95
You want to set the limit at 20 years? Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #104
20 years will be not enough Maslo55 Dec 2011 #105
Correct - renewables are not cheaper PamW Dec 2011 #106
Cherry pick much? Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #107
However... PamW Dec 2011 #109
Solyndra has nothing to do with it... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #111
Upon second thought... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #116
WRONG!!! PamW Dec 2011 #119
Come on Pam... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #126
WRONG! PamW Dec 2011 #129
Price-Anderson liability insurance isn't free PamW Dec 2011 #118
Gosh, that's a huge amount of money... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #127
Again... PamW Dec 2011 #110
Right now... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #113
Made up numbers... PamW Dec 2011 #120
No Pam... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #125
Credentials? PamW Dec 2011 #130
My credentials? Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #133
Duh! Obvious! PamW Jan 2012 #135
Well, I look at your postings... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #141
More effect... PamW Dec 2011 #131
Hate to tell you... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #134
YES!!! PamW Jan 2012 #136
Geezeeeee..... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #137
Well get the job done... PamW Jan 2012 #139
The science says... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #140
You don't know the pricing algorithms PamW Jan 2012 #138
Your quote... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #142
You're not "getting it"... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #108
Come on Bob... he/she is clearly going for the laughs... SpoonFed Dec 2011 #115
No. SpoonFed Dec 2011 #20
you are obviously Maslo55 Dec 2011 #96
You're funny... SpoonFed Dec 2011 #112
Factual arguments ahead Maslo55 Dec 2011 #117
Those numbers... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #121
About 30-40 years ago... PamW Dec 2011 #124
This... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #128
Here are some of the "wind energy deaths"... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #132
Actually Four people were killed on December 9, 1986 Throckmorton Jan 2012 #149
That "burning" thing... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #122
That Germany thing... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #123
What are the problems with LFTR technology? OKIsItJustMe Dec 2011 #6
Your point is that a lengthy discussion wtmusic Dec 2011 #8
I think what many of us recognize... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #11
Nothing of the sort OKIsItJustMe Dec 2011 #16
Now ask that same question with regards to IFR. joshcryer Dec 2011 #15
LFTR and IFR are the only nuclear technologies I might advocate. joshcryer Dec 2011 #14
Barry Brock is an Australian Uranium Sales team leader. kristopher Dec 2011 #17
Barry Brook is the Director of Climate Science at the University of Adelaide. joshcryer Dec 2011 #21
How did he get that post? He isn't a climatologist kristopher Dec 2011 #29
His expertise was conservation biology. joshcryer Dec 2011 #31
He isn't a climatologist so how did he get the Climate Chair? kristopher Dec 2011 #33
His entire acedemic history is suitible for that chair? joshcryer Dec 2011 #36
He might as well be drawing a paycheck directly from the uranium mining industry. kristopher Dec 2011 #37
Speaking at a conference, likely unpaid, hardly merits that observation. joshcryer Dec 2011 #38
Some of the most unresisting imbecility I've seen posted in this forum. wtmusic Dec 2011 #41
South Australia is the hub of uranium mining in AU. kristopher Dec 2011 #55
You just reposted what you posted before. joshcryer Dec 2011 #79
Breaking: Brook was just appointed to judge the Global Energy Prize wtmusic Dec 2011 #82
Nice find. Brook's environmental record remains untarnished by anonymous detractors. joshcryer Dec 2011 #90
Because the University thought he was best suited for the job? Nederland Dec 2011 #69
We all know full well... SpoonFed Dec 2011 #114
I fervently hope it stays dead. GliderGuider Dec 2011 #48
There's another option... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #50
It’s not the energy, it’s the source of the energy OKIsItJustMe Dec 2011 #51
The damage comes from both the use of the energy and the waste products of its production. GliderGuider Dec 2011 #52
Use of energy does not directly lead to “ecocidal damage” OKIsItJustMe Dec 2011 #53
Of course it does. GliderGuider Dec 2011 #54
Once again, it’s a matter of thinking OKIsItJustMe Dec 2011 #56
Which do you suppose causes less damage - GliderGuider Dec 2011 #57
Take it as a given that there will be agriculture in the future OKIsItJustMe Dec 2011 #58
My ideal goal would be to reduce human impact on the planet by 85%. GliderGuider Dec 2011 #59
OK, so energy usage is not the problem in your equation OKIsItJustMe Dec 2011 #60
The impact of aggregate human activity is the problem. GliderGuider Dec 2011 #63
How did you arrive at .15 for deltaPI? nt wtmusic Dec 2011 #74
My working assumption these days is that GliderGuider Dec 2011 #81
OK - why is human impact 6x what it should be to guarantee long-term sustainability? wtmusic Dec 2011 #83
I base my opinion on the situation around the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. GliderGuider Dec 2011 #84
What's your plan? The one in which we kill 6 billion people... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #61
There is no plan. The required change is too large to be anything except involuntary. GliderGuider Dec 2011 #64
I posted no comments... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #65
The "required change" I talk about has little to do with immediate human welfare. GliderGuider Dec 2011 #66
Well, let's go back to the main (dodged) question... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #67
Re-introduce wolves to California? XemaSab Dec 2011 #68
Only if they're thorium powered drone wolves... nt GliderGuider Dec 2011 #71
Why not just find nice homes for them? redway420 Jan 2012 #146
I thought I was clear. I don't "propose" any mechanism, I think all we have to do is wait. GliderGuider Dec 2011 #70
OK, your route... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #72
I suspect that's going to be largely true. GliderGuider Dec 2011 #73
Sorry, ... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #75
I know it's too doomer for you, we already discussed that. n/t GliderGuider Dec 2011 #78
With 30,000 dying every day from starvation, it's already well underway wtmusic Dec 2011 #76
Is the rate of starvation related deaths rising? Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #77
According to WHO, "only" 150,000 annual deaths are directly attributable to global warming wtmusic Dec 2011 #80
That seems to be from ten year old data... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #85
ahhhh.. the local luddite appeared. Maslo55 Dec 2011 #88
Feels good doesn't it? GliderGuider Dec 2011 #89
I dont understand Maslo55 Dec 2011 #94
Maybe this will help GliderGuider Dec 2011 #100
your position Maslo55 Dec 2011 #102
We're clearly on opposite sides of the fence on this. GliderGuider Dec 2011 #103
A challenger appears! joshcryer Dec 2011 #92
Benford, Bear, and Brin explore the "People first" ideology in their continuation of Asimov's work. hunter Jan 2012 #147
.. Maslo55 Jan 2012 #148
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Who Killed the Liquid Flu...»Reply #97