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CRH

(1,553 posts)
8. I think your study has a weakness that you have stated, ...
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 07:22 PM
Nov 2012

in the third to last paragraph of your post.

If we indeed do reach 4*C by mid century I feel this will greatly limit our ability to maintain the social and industrial order necessary, to rapidly burn off the rest of the hydrocarbons in the last half of the century. Therefore, what we already have baked in the CO2 concentration mix, will be about it. What is the planet's sensitivity to doubling CO2, who knows? But what we have seen at just .8*C rise, are undeniable feedbacks much ahead of the IPCC models' schedule.

Hurricane Sandy, before that Katrina and others, already show large disruption in large cities and commerce. 2011 and 2012 saw major drought on five continents, and subsequent crop failures. The Arctic ice melt guarantees continued and larger disruption of sea and atmospheric currents, leaving weather models useless for planning agriculture. This is all happening at .8*C.

At 2*C there will be far more disruption, and in addition almost certain fresh water restraints. Will these disruptions be linear in proportion, or exponential? At 4*C I think we will be very lucky to have much order remaining, starvation and nomadic migration will add stresses of their own. At this point I foresee industrial output chaotic at best, limited by the abilities of consumers as well as water and power considerations. There will still be plenty of hydrocarbons for power production, but I question seriously if the infrastructure and social order will remain at levels needed to continue rising production.

In short, I don't think it likely we have at our means the innovation necessary to adapt to 2*C then 4*C in an already faltering economy, climate, and society. On a global level, that would take cooperation and sharing of resource and intellectual property. Hasn't happened in the last 5,000 years, and I don't expect it to start now.

I also think anything more than 4*C is moot in the long run, as that bakes in 6*C minimum with chances of unknown feedbacks as well. And I don't agree with some that believe anywhere beyond 4*C is adaptable. It is easy to say PETM was survivable to most mammalian species, at 6*C, but how many died, how far did they have to migrate, and were they as fragile as humans in cold and warm conditions? What were the conditions of the earth before, PETM, pristine? What other land mammals except humans have depended on the oceans for a large amount of their sustenance? No, I can't image much above 4*C as survivable, with the variance in heat conditions in different latitudes.

Just a few of my thoughts. hrh

Recommendations

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Still waiting for someone to debunk Lynas wtmusic Nov 2012 #1
Woh - Impressive Work Bigmack Nov 2012 #2
AT +10C, anybody who thinks humanity's survival is guaranteed is deluded. phantom power Nov 2012 #3
A +10C shift would be a planetwide catastrophe struggle4progress Nov 2012 #4
There is absolutely no question about that. GliderGuider Nov 2012 #5
By then we'll be colonizing Mars. joshcryer Nov 2012 #7
Is that a joke? NoOneMan Nov 2012 #9
Now that's an interesting observation. GliderGuider Nov 2012 #11
That's the main point I'm trying to make. joshcryer Nov 2012 #14
That'll happen too. We'll also probably move underground. joshcryer Nov 2012 #13
Any technology requires two key things in order to function GliderGuider Nov 2012 #15
Like you pointed out, we have fossil fuels until 2090. joshcryer Nov 2012 #17
Finding, drilling, transporting, refining and distributing GliderGuider Nov 2012 #19
I can't really disagree, I just can't predict how bad the die off will be. joshcryer Nov 2012 #20
Yes, there are a lot of unknowns. GliderGuider Nov 2012 #22
What can I say? Why aren't those in power getting the message? Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #6
I suspect that some of them ignore it because they already get it. GliderGuider Nov 2012 #12
I'm not so sure they get it. Not to the point of solution. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #23
For the vast majority, I'm sure you're right. GliderGuider Nov 2012 #24
I think your study has a weakness that you have stated, ... CRH Nov 2012 #8
Thanks, those are good additions. GliderGuider Nov 2012 #10
So are you "prepping" for your predictions? NoOneMan Nov 2012 #16
Nope. I've made the choice to stay in my community and go through whatever they do. GliderGuider Nov 2012 #18
Good luck with that! NoOneMan Nov 2012 #21
Easter Island AldoLeopold Nov 2012 #25
Carl Lipo and Terry Hunt have some different mahina Nov 2012 #26
Yah, totally its contraversial AldoLeopold Nov 2012 #27
Rapa Nui peoples struggles are not over mahina Nov 2012 #28
holy smokes, my android does some crazy autocorrects. mahina Nov 2012 #29
Their radio carbing dating is thoroughly unsupported. joshcryer Nov 2012 #31
Really? AldoLeopold Nov 2012 #36
Carl Lipo and Terry Hunt have some wrong ideas about what happened. joshcryer Nov 2012 #30
Interesting mahina Nov 2012 #34
You sir, are on my awesome list AldoLeopold Nov 2012 #37
joshcryer and I may not agree on everything, but GliderGuider Nov 2012 #43
I think you're way too sanguine pscot Nov 2012 #32
The biggest unknown in all this is GliderGuider Nov 2012 #38
I agree pscot Nov 2012 #40
Acceleration - that's the kick in the nuts, isn't it? GliderGuider Nov 2012 #42
The kick in the nadgers pscot Nov 2012 #44
+10C is PETM temperatures. Odin2005 Nov 2012 #33
Yeah, not by 2100, anyhow. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #35
If we act by +3, we'll eventually get +6 anyway GliderGuider Nov 2012 #39
I've been pondering what temperature change I believe is realistic GliderGuider Nov 2012 #41
Kick to make sure people see my error and apology nt GliderGuider Nov 2012 #45
Phew. Please pass the gasoline? wtmusic Nov 2012 #46
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