Environment & Energy

NoOneMan

(4,795 posts)

24. In addition, the system thrives on conflict

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 08:24 PM

Dec 2012

Conflict allows a system to assert its power and polarize the populace, thereby reinforcing its influence. Conflict allows a system to locate weaknesses and evolve pass them via restructuring. Conflict is a system's source of evolution, and evolution does not always inherently imply linear progression, like some moral arc bending towards "good" for the human condition.

Withdrawl is the only way to oppose a system without further rewarding it or helping it grow.

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Kill the Economy [View all] Speck Tater Dec 2012 OP

Good riddance NoOneMan Dec 2012 #1

�The modern economy is slavery; it forces everyone to work in such a way their labor is exploited�� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #2

Not a bit NoOneMan Dec 2012 #5

Clearly, you don�t know what �slavery� is� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #6

Forcing you to work to live and exploiting that labor is slavery NoOneMan Dec 2012 #9

That is very clearly framed. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #10

Um� this is BS� seriously OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #12

You know how to free a slave? NoOneMan Dec 2012 #22

You really don�t get it, do you OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #36

Of course a slave wouldn't! NoOneMan Dec 2012 #38

Nonsense OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #42

Why do you think people make "poor" choices that make them life-long servants to debt? NoOneMan Dec 2012 #43

Poor impulse control OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #46

Why? Are we born that way? Are we molded that way to benefit something? Do we "choose" it? NoOneMan Dec 2012 #47

I think Wesley had the right idea, that it takes training to combat our �natural instincts� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #48

Natural instincts? I don't see hunter-gatherers going into debt, consuming everything in sight NoOneMan Dec 2012 #49

I expect hunter-gatherers had similar problems OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #52

Well, what about those around today? NoOneMan Dec 2012 #54

So, tell me� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #57

It is not my home, nor my people NoOneMan Dec 2012 #60

#FirstWorldProblem OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #63

That's a beautiful article about them NoOneMan Dec 2012 #65

The system is designed to push people and governments into debt cprise Dec 2012 #28

Employers do not need to beat their employees to make them productive NoOneMan Dec 2012 #40

However, to be a slave, one must be owned by someone else OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #44

Almost everything around us is useless and distracting NoOneMan Dec 2012 #45

�� we believe we "need" (because something taught us so)� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #50

I completely reject your premise that humans just naturally want material objects NoOneMan Dec 2012 #51

Can you demonstrate that this desire for possessions is not natural? OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #53

Homo Sapiens were on earth long before agriculture and religion NoOneMan Dec 2012 #55

Uh huh� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #56

Whoa, don't let that strawman catch on fire before you are done weaving it! NoOneMan Dec 2012 #58

OK, so how about at a much smaller level? OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #61

Its not about hard work NoOneMan Dec 2012 #64

Who programmed the animals? OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #66

Satan. He does everything bad. NoOneMan Dec 2012 #67

Interesting� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #85

No, animals do not have a natural, unlearned concept of private ownership NoOneMan Dec 2012 #86

Interesting� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #89

To be blunt, most animals cannot even prove they are self-aware NoOneMan Dec 2012 #92

Re: �To be blunt, most animals cannot even prove they are self-aware� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #94

Self-awareness and emotions are two different things NoOneMan Dec 2012 #95

I don�t believe I said that emotions and self-awareness were the same OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #96

With all due respect, NoOneMan Dec 2012 #97

So, then, you don�t believe that �animals� exhibit �natural behaviors?� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #98

In a human nature vs nurture issue... NoOneMan Dec 2012 #100

I�m sorry OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #101

Culture NoOneMan Dec 2012 #104

Have you read Daniel Quinn? GliderGuider Dec 2012 #108

Yes, and I think it is as viable as a theory as "we all suck" NoOneMan Dec 2012 #110

I don't spend a lot of energy worrying about what is "more natural" GliderGuider Dec 2012 #112

"Our key error was our choice to see ourselves as being separate from the world that sustains us" NoOneMan Dec 2012 #114

The level that consumerism requires isn't natural. We are conditioned to it as a matter of policy: cprise Dec 2012 #88

I will watch it later OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #90

Aside from consumerism, the medical system does this as well NoOneMan Dec 2012 #99

�It is a proven fact that health has declined drastically since the onset of agriculture�� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #107

Universal health care is like democracy. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #109

�In practice it has problems�� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #113

We do have a tendency to perpetually increase complexity to deal with issues NoOneMan Dec 2012 #115

I'm fond of Systemantics OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #125

��only makes sense among a diseased population living with stress and nutritional deficiencies.� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #128

Well... NoOneMan Dec 2012 #130

"the neolithic farmers survived. The mesolithic hunter-gathers did not" NoOneMan Dec 2012 #111

Agriculture as �Worst Mistake in the History of the Human Race�? � Anthropology 2.1 OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #124

I feel like Antrosio just rubbed feces into my cortex while urinating on Diamond's name NoOneMan Dec 2012 #126

Did he say the farmers were healthier? OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #127

He didn't have room to say much aside from the ad hominems NoOneMan Dec 2012 #129

�The links you posted are of the same study I posted earlier� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #135

My mistake NoOneMan Dec 2012 #141

I don�t go along with that OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #143

There was interbreeding as well NoOneMan Dec 2012 #144

�� shorter stature � agriculture coincided with a massive reduction to human health� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #145

"A decline of stature of historic populations has been used to indicate nutritional status." NoOneMan Dec 2012 #146

Just curious� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #147

I don't know enough about a "Japanese Diet" to answer that NoOneMan Dec 2012 #148

How convenient! OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #149

So they switched some definiciencies for others NoOneMan Dec 2012 #150

�This is the science. These are the facts.� Uh huh� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #151

Quick, send that link to the paleopathologists! NoOneMan Dec 2012 #152

This message was self-deleted by its author OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #153

Height, health, and development OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #154

Did it every occur to you that they are both correct? NoOneMan Dec 2012 #157

My key point is this OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #164

I think this is where we aren't seeing eye to eye NoOneMan Dec 2012 #165

Coevolution tama Dec 2012 #133

It is an interesting viewpoint OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #137

This has echoes of Dawkins' "Selfish Gene" hypothesis GliderGuider Dec 2012 #139

Its clear humans do those things for other species NoOneMan Dec 2012 #142

"Anthropomorphic selfish gene game theory..." tama Dec 2012 #170

Interesting idea NoOneMan Dec 2012 #171

As Socrates said: tama Dec 2012 #174

Yup. Thusly the term slave wages, FogerRox Dec 2012 #68

Well, it is safe to say you have never worked a farm AlexSatan Dec 2012 #155

I grew up on an organic farm NoOneMan Dec 2012 #158

your solution is simple backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #79

Are the 40 acres free? NoOneMan Dec 2012 #80

Thank you for making my point DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #103

Really? NoOneMan Dec 2012 #105

actually no DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #117

Agroforestry NoOneMan Dec 2012 #119

OK DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #120

There is a large variety of techniques & approaches NoOneMan Dec 2012 #122

Wow. Breathing air (necessary for life)==being on the Internet AlexSatan Dec 2012 #156

Interacting with an environment not of your choosing has no impact on the veracity of one's message NoOneMan Dec 2012 #159

You might want to look up "ad hominem attack" AlexSatan Dec 2012 #160

Yes, attacking me instead of what I am saying NoOneMan Dec 2012 #161

I mocked THE COMPARISON you made AlexSatan Dec 2012 #162

"It is just hypocritical to use a system you want to destroy" NoOneMan Dec 2012 #163

of course DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #167

Billions of people are malnourished and a billion face perpetual hunger already NoOneMan Dec 2012 #168

"You are a butthole" == ad hominem attack AlexSatan Dec 2012 #172

Ad Hominem Tu Quoque NoOneMan Dec 2012 #173

So you compare surgery and dentistry DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #166

I'm not sure where you are getting this comparison NoOneMan Dec 2012 #169

Almost all the health care advances are merely to negate the consequences of nutritional deficits, DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #59

"The emergence of agriculture may have exacerbated the dilemma..." NoOneMan Dec 2012 #62

hahahahaha DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #69

Rawest end of the forceps you mean? NoOneMan Dec 2012 #70

a few hundred years? DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #71

You want to talk about facts, but you ignore or laugh at: NoOneMan Dec 2012 #72

do provide some PROOF of point one DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #73

Head back to the "hahahaha" NoOneMan Dec 2012 #74

so DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #75

Academic studies cannot defeat civilization dogma NoOneMan Dec 2012 #76

Ummm... 2naSalit Dec 2012 #78

Higher mortality rates could be construed as such NoOneMan Dec 2012 #81

"One of the most profound changes to occur with the foraging to farming transition..... NoOneMan Dec 2012 #77

You forget one thing DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #102

Primitive medicine isn't blind intuition NoOneMan Dec 2012 #106

Without science, it is DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #116

Blind intuition or not, its really irrelevant outside of a specific context NoOneMan Dec 2012 #118

not quite DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #121

Let's please not do the dying in childbirth thing again NoOneMan Dec 2012 #123

the kind of "real" that matters is "stuff happening to me directly" - which is starting too phantom power Dec 2012 #3

Kill the economy and everyone lives happily ever after... hunter Dec 2012 #4

Socialism demands that you work for the "common good" NoOneMan Dec 2012 #8

Not much point raging against the Fates or the Furies. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #7

I couldn't agree more. Speck Tater Dec 2012 #11

And I disagree... 'survival of the fittest' cprise Dec 2012 #29

Well in that case I guess we have to pin our hopes on some alien life form Speck Tater Dec 2012 #30

You must be a blast at parties. n/t cprise Dec 2012 #31

I don't know. I never get invited! :-) nt Speck Tater Dec 2012 #32

That makes perfect sense. n/t cprise Dec 2012 #33

"'survival of the fittest' does not quite work under these conditions", we THINK. AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #39

You're in E/E now... the context is ecology cprise Dec 2012 #91

You made an assertion. AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #93

�Let's see what comes next.� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #13

That's a fundamental difference between us. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #14

This much is certain, we can affect our environment. (We�ve been doing it for millennia.) OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #15

"Can we really make them all that much worse at this point?" GliderGuider Dec 2012 #16

Which blind efforts are we actively making to improve our lot? OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #17

Well, let's take micro-loans. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #18

OK, let�s see� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #19

I'll admit that my micro-loan example was a bit mischievous GliderGuider Dec 2012 #21

Certain annual hay plants tama Dec 2012 #134

First example doesn't work Iterate Dec 2012 #20

Yes on all counts, but another question comes up. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #23

It seems my skepticism about microfinance was misdirected, but not misplaced GliderGuider Dec 2012 #27

We can also tama Dec 2012 #82

Well, yes OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #84

Problem with science tama Dec 2012 #132

Sorry, I can�t see the word �objectivism� without thinking of Ayn Rand OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #140

There is no Sorcerer, there is just us. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #138

In addition, the system thrives on conflict NoOneMan Dec 2012 #24

Yes, "fighting the system" requires one to be part of it. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #26

GliderGuider, tama Dec 2012 #83

Mind your manners, young whippersnapper. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #87

middle age - been there, done that tama Dec 2012 #131

What a great comeback! GliderGuider Dec 2012 #136

Have you ever considered, NoOneMan Dec 2012 #25

Is this adressed specifically to GliderGuider? cprise Dec 2012 #34

Response to "I prefer to guide what comes next." NoOneMan Dec 2012 #35

No, not to me - but I agree with it completely. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #41