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Environment & Energy

In reply to the discussion: The Thorium Dream [View all]

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
4. "Thorium dreams"? Apt title...
Tue Jan 3, 2012, 02:58 PM
Jan 2012

It has more in common with "opium dreams" than just sounding similar.

This overview seems fairly comprehensive and looks to be dedicated to separating fact from hype.

Sample:

...One other misconception on the internet is the view that a LFTR reactor will produce almost no nuclear waste, as the following You-tube video implies (or see this “activists” banner here). This is not the case. All the while during the plant’s operating life that chemical plant will be producing nuclear waste material, and as discussed earlier some of that is pretty “nasty stuff”. Not a lot of it per day, but it all adds up! Also the supporters of the LFTR seem to assume that this CPP can operate with 100% efficiency (i.e remove all the radioactive poisons). This would be very technically challenging, especially in the LFTR case given the importance about separating out of U-232 (and its Thallium-208 payload) from U-233 or indeed removal of protactinium-233 as well as a host of other nuclear “poisons” discussed. Build up of these in the core both leads to increased irradiation of the core as well as the eventual shutdown of the nuclear reaction process altogether.

An CPP facility capable of that level of operating efficiency would likely be physically very large. Given that it will be working with radioactive materials, and the real radiological hazard is a pipe burst (an all too common occurrence and any chemical plant, and especially likely at these sort of working temperatures and radiation levels), we would thus need to put the CPP underneath our concrete containment dome. Obviously a large CPP will not only be expensive to build and maintain but greatly increase the size of this containment structure, further increasing reactor construction costs as well as increasing construction time (and reducing the number of said reactors we comission in any given time period).

And of course the supporters of the LF reactor concept have yet to come up with a functional design of an CPP. I’ve seen various dusty line drawings of the 1970’s ORNL proposal, you can see them yourself here and here, but that’s it. I would firstly note that materials science and chemical processing technology has moved on hugely in the last 40 years, so I doubt it would be sensible to build an CPP as shown in these plans. A new one would have to be redesigned (all but) from scratch.

The LFTR supporters have tried to counter this by coming up with designs of their own, but I’ve yet to see an actual working schematic, one that specifically discusses cycle efficiencies and above all else ENERGY INPUTS! The designers of this reactor seem to be assuming that this CPP, which will involve various stages of pumping, sparging, vacuum processing and filtering of the working fluid, often at a variety of set temperatures or pressures will operate with no net energy input and achieve 100% separation efficiency! In science we have a technical term for such a belief.

As the working fluid will be ...

http://daryanenergyblog.wordpress.com/ca/part-8-msr-lftr/

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

The Thorium Dream [View all] wtmusic Jan 2012 OP
This gets shot down every time it's posted here. Gregorian Jan 2012 #1
They run at around 1200ºF so they're hard on materials wtmusic Jan 2012 #2
Thorium has highest melting point of all oxides at 3,182° F. Fledermaus Jan 2012 #15
this is fake Maslo55 Jan 2012 #16
He knows that... kristopher Jan 2012 #18
I am yet to see any credible Maslo55 Jan 2012 #19
The fact that thorium is an element, not an "oxide", should have made this article suspect. wtmusic Jan 2012 #22
"Thorium dreams"? Apt title... kristopher Jan 2012 #4
Anonymous, uninformed, barely comprehensible idiocy. wtmusic Jan 2012 #6
Poor feller's having his own personal meltdown, aren't ya? kristopher Jan 2012 #7
Actually I'm very optimistic wtmusic Jan 2012 #8
thorium has a "cult following on line" ...with "aspects of a Scientific Cargo Cult" kristopher Jan 2012 #9
LOL same anonymous, uninformed blogger. wtmusic Jan 2012 #10
Tick, tick. Like watching paint dry. nt wtmusic Jan 2012 #23
Not much of a critique Maslo55 Jan 2012 #17
So the people who are being debunked think the debunker needs debunkiing... kristopher Jan 2012 #21
Thorium Reactors OKIsItJustMe Jan 2012 #3
Both were light-water reactors with solid-fuel cores wtmusic Jan 2012 #5
keep dreaming waddirum Jan 2012 #11
Unfortunately repeating that mantra doesn't make it true. wtmusic Jan 2012 #12
So why do you keep using that strategy? kristopher Jan 2012 #13
Keep Waiting for Godot waddirum Jan 2012 #20
U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium Fledermaus Jan 2012 #14
youtube link... hunter Jan 2012 #24
A better name would be.. FSSF Jan 2012 #25
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