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Environment & Energy
In reply to the discussion: Kill the Economy [View all]NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)104. Culture
Which reciprocally creates the economy, religion, etc.
It is an expression of our nature.
Unless we can pin down the origin of our economy to a single (or few) ethnic/cultural group that expanded outward via migration from a common point of origin (using accumulated surplus energy) and dominated other groups with their power and economic system. Then it isn't so much of a reflection of OUR nature, but maybe the nature of a specific dominating ethnic group from a specific geographical origin, who has enslaved mankind accordingly to their ideals by simply creating an environment where others will starve or be killed if they do not follow the rules.
Whew....I mean, its a possibility that we are all playing according to a game that was brought to us by outside influences rather than living in a common day manifestation of our natural instincts. Right?
How European Farmers Spread Agriculture Across Continent
Wouldn't it be sad if our entire conception of reality was "unnatural" and the result of a very successful bad idea from specific geographical regions that could do nothing but grow infinitely once it began to fester? What if our entire notion of the failings of humanity (our "greed", our "impulses", our "short-sightedness"
All over the world, we have seen (and continue to see) societies who do not accumulate surplus energy and wealth, and who do not destroy their environment; often, if they have anything civilization judges of value, they are destroyed or assimilated. But our only cognitive representation of mankind rests on the dominating culture, without discriminating domination through technology from nature itself.
Humans had a hundred thousand year accumulation of culture (some still do) that did not naturally manifest into a progressively complex society that consumes everything in site. We do know that in a few rare instances some specific cultures did, and expanded out destroying the others. Civilization only has about a 10K year track record, and it seems to aim at convincing people that humans didn't have another viable way to work together, think complexly, and communicate prior to its evasive existence. That is a tough pill to continually swallow.
In any case, I do not accept that cultural expansion and domination is an aggregate representation of all human nature whatsoever, but perhaps a unique few who constructed a self-reinforcing, self-sustaining, exponentially growing system (think game-theory). Hell, we know that even on a simpler level, a single individual--a genius, a virtuoso, a savant, a sociopath--can have an impact on culture that is disproportionally larger than their representation in the gene pool; basically, an improbable fluke can impact all of human history immensely. By no means can we consider our current culture any type of accurate manifestation of human nature with what we know.
Just food for thought. Thats all.
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“The modern economy is slavery; it forces everyone to work in such a way their labor is exploited…”
OKIsItJustMe
Dec 2012
#2
Why do you think people make "poor" choices that make them life-long servants to debt?
NoOneMan
Dec 2012
#43
Why? Are we born that way? Are we molded that way to benefit something? Do we "choose" it?
NoOneMan
Dec 2012
#47
I think Wesley had the right idea, that it takes training to combat our “natural instincts”
OKIsItJustMe
Dec 2012
#48
Natural instincts? I don't see hunter-gatherers going into debt, consuming everything in sight
NoOneMan
Dec 2012
#49
I completely reject your premise that humans just naturally want material objects
NoOneMan
Dec 2012
#51
"Our key error was our choice to see ourselves as being separate from the world that sustains us"
NoOneMan
Dec 2012
#114
The level that consumerism requires isn't natural. We are conditioned to it as a matter of policy:
cprise
Dec 2012
#88
“It is a proven fact that health has declined drastically since the onset of agriculture…”
OKIsItJustMe
Dec 2012
#107
“…only makes sense among a diseased population living with stress and nutritional deficiencies.”
OKIsItJustMe
Dec 2012
#128
Agriculture as “Worst Mistake in the History of the Human Race”? – Anthropology 2.1
OKIsItJustMe
Dec 2012
#124
I feel like Antrosio just rubbed feces into my cortex while urinating on Diamond's name
NoOneMan
Dec 2012
#126
“… shorter stature … agriculture coincided with a massive reduction to human health”
OKIsItJustMe
Dec 2012
#145
"A decline of stature of historic populations has been used to indicate nutritional status."
NoOneMan
Dec 2012
#146
Interacting with an environment not of your choosing has no impact on the veracity of one's message
NoOneMan
Dec 2012
#159
Billions of people are malnourished and a billion face perpetual hunger already
NoOneMan
Dec 2012
#168
Almost all the health care advances are merely to negate the consequences of nutritional deficits,
DonCoquixote
Dec 2012
#59
"One of the most profound changes to occur with the foraging to farming transition.....
NoOneMan
Dec 2012
#77
the kind of "real" that matters is "stuff happening to me directly" - which is starting too
phantom power
Dec 2012
#3
"'survival of the fittest' does not quite work under these conditions", we THINK.
AtheistCrusader
Dec 2012
#39
This much is certain, we can affect our environment. (We’ve been doing it for millennia.)
OKIsItJustMe
Dec 2012
#15
It seems my skepticism about microfinance was misdirected, but not misplaced
GliderGuider
Dec 2012
#27