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Environment & Energy
In reply to the discussion: Kill the Economy [View all]OKIsItJustMe
(21,875 posts)137. It is an interesting viewpoint
I rather liked Lovelocks suggestion that we are like spacesuits for anaerobic bacteria, who had hopelessly polluted their environment with oxygen.
More to the point, it appears (for example) that, rather than humans domesticating canids, humans and canids may have coevolved.
http://today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/an-evolutionary-tale-about-dogs-193185.aspx
[font face=Serif]Mar 03, 2011
[font size=5]An evolutionary tale about dogs and humans[/font]
[font size=3]A study of the evolution of dogs has opened new and unparalleled doorways to understanding how genes and the genome produce diversity, people attending a recent symposium hosted by the UCLA Center for Society and Genetics learned.
Held Feb. 25-26, the two-day public symposium, Made for Each Other? Dog and Human Co-evolution, brought together geneticists, behaviorists, dog lovers and trainers, historians, cultural anthropologists, ecologists, artists and many others to discuss the genesis of dogs and explore the changing and complex relationship between dogs and humans.
Dogs and humans have essentially evolved alongside each other, migrating together across continents. Today, there are no human populations that do not have dogs as an integral part of their culture.
All dogs those that are considered village animals who still roam in packs and breed at will, as well as those that are breed dogs who live with humans share a common ancestor, the wolf. But there was no single wolf-to-dog event that created the dog, according to genetic analyses and the fossil record, said Robert Wayne, UCLA professor in ecology and evolutionary biology. Rather, the emergence of the dog was an ongoing, long-term, widespread process as wolf populations interacted with humans.
[/font][/font]
[font size=5]An evolutionary tale about dogs and humans[/font]
[font size=3]A study of the evolution of dogs has opened new and unparalleled doorways to understanding how genes and the genome produce diversity, people attending a recent symposium hosted by the UCLA Center for Society and Genetics learned.
Held Feb. 25-26, the two-day public symposium, Made for Each Other? Dog and Human Co-evolution, brought together geneticists, behaviorists, dog lovers and trainers, historians, cultural anthropologists, ecologists, artists and many others to discuss the genesis of dogs and explore the changing and complex relationship between dogs and humans.
Dogs and humans have essentially evolved alongside each other, migrating together across continents. Today, there are no human populations that do not have dogs as an integral part of their culture.
All dogs those that are considered village animals who still roam in packs and breed at will, as well as those that are breed dogs who live with humans share a common ancestor, the wolf. But there was no single wolf-to-dog event that created the dog, according to genetic analyses and the fossil record, said Robert Wayne, UCLA professor in ecology and evolutionary biology. Rather, the emergence of the dog was an ongoing, long-term, widespread process as wolf populations interacted with humans.
[/font][/font]
And if this is the case with canines, why not other domesticated animals?
And if it is true of domesticated animals why not domesticated plants as well?
Of course, where does this speculation end?
If we breed a monster turkey, are we doing the turkeys bidding?
http://science.kqed.org/quest/2012/11/19/turkey-trouble-genetics-gone-too-far/
[font face=Serif][font size=5]Turkey Trouble: Genetics Gone Too Far?[/font]
Post on Nov 19, 2012 by Dr. Barry Starr from QUEST Northern California

We've bred these poor things to the point where they can't even reproduce anymore without our help.
[font size=3]No, this isnt a blog about genetically modified organisms that has been argued enough lately! Instead, in honor of Thanksgiving, I want to talk about regular old selective breeding and the monsters it can create: the industrial turkey, the main course at most dinner tables on Thursday.
What we have all conspired to do to this once noble bird is appallingly awful. In our drive for more healthy white meat, we have selected for giant versions of turkeys with grotesquely over-sized breasts. How over-sized? Their breasts are so big at this point that these poor things cant successfully mate. Every industrial turkey was created by artificial insemination.
Not only that, but all of that extra muscle has created birds in constant pain. Their bones just cant easily handle all of that muscle being packed on so quickly. Add the damage to their hearts and the resulting high rate of heart attacks and you have something pretty close to monstrous.
And remember, we didnt engineer these things at all. These caricatures of wild turkeys were hidden in the turkey genome all along.
[/font][/font]
Post on Nov 19, 2012 by Dr. Barry Starr from QUEST Northern California

We've bred these poor things to the point where they can't even reproduce anymore without our help.
[font size=3]No, this isnt a blog about genetically modified organisms that has been argued enough lately! Instead, in honor of Thanksgiving, I want to talk about regular old selective breeding and the monsters it can create: the industrial turkey, the main course at most dinner tables on Thursday.
What we have all conspired to do to this once noble bird is appallingly awful. In our drive for more healthy white meat, we have selected for giant versions of turkeys with grotesquely over-sized breasts. How over-sized? Their breasts are so big at this point that these poor things cant successfully mate. Every industrial turkey was created by artificial insemination.
Not only that, but all of that extra muscle has created birds in constant pain. Their bones just cant easily handle all of that muscle being packed on so quickly. Add the damage to their hearts and the resulting high rate of heart attacks and you have something pretty close to monstrous.
And remember, we didnt engineer these things at all. These caricatures of wild turkeys were hidden in the turkey genome all along.
[/font][/font]
If Monsanto produces a new GM strain of corn, are they simply doing the corns bidding?
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“The modern economy is slavery; it forces everyone to work in such a way their labor is exploited…”
OKIsItJustMe
Dec 2012
#2
Why do you think people make "poor" choices that make them life-long servants to debt?
NoOneMan
Dec 2012
#43
Why? Are we born that way? Are we molded that way to benefit something? Do we "choose" it?
NoOneMan
Dec 2012
#47
I think Wesley had the right idea, that it takes training to combat our “natural instincts”
OKIsItJustMe
Dec 2012
#48
Natural instincts? I don't see hunter-gatherers going into debt, consuming everything in sight
NoOneMan
Dec 2012
#49
I completely reject your premise that humans just naturally want material objects
NoOneMan
Dec 2012
#51
"Our key error was our choice to see ourselves as being separate from the world that sustains us"
NoOneMan
Dec 2012
#114
The level that consumerism requires isn't natural. We are conditioned to it as a matter of policy:
cprise
Dec 2012
#88
“It is a proven fact that health has declined drastically since the onset of agriculture…”
OKIsItJustMe
Dec 2012
#107
“…only makes sense among a diseased population living with stress and nutritional deficiencies.”
OKIsItJustMe
Dec 2012
#128
Agriculture as “Worst Mistake in the History of the Human Race”? – Anthropology 2.1
OKIsItJustMe
Dec 2012
#124
I feel like Antrosio just rubbed feces into my cortex while urinating on Diamond's name
NoOneMan
Dec 2012
#126
“… shorter stature … agriculture coincided with a massive reduction to human health”
OKIsItJustMe
Dec 2012
#145
"A decline of stature of historic populations has been used to indicate nutritional status."
NoOneMan
Dec 2012
#146
Interacting with an environment not of your choosing has no impact on the veracity of one's message
NoOneMan
Dec 2012
#159
Billions of people are malnourished and a billion face perpetual hunger already
NoOneMan
Dec 2012
#168
Almost all the health care advances are merely to negate the consequences of nutritional deficits,
DonCoquixote
Dec 2012
#59
"One of the most profound changes to occur with the foraging to farming transition.....
NoOneMan
Dec 2012
#77
the kind of "real" that matters is "stuff happening to me directly" - which is starting too
phantom power
Dec 2012
#3
"'survival of the fittest' does not quite work under these conditions", we THINK.
AtheistCrusader
Dec 2012
#39
This much is certain, we can affect our environment. (We’ve been doing it for millennia.)
OKIsItJustMe
Dec 2012
#15
It seems my skepticism about microfinance was misdirected, but not misplaced
GliderGuider
Dec 2012
#27