Environment & Energy

NoOneMan

(4,795 posts)

144. There was interbreeding as well

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 02:05 PM

Dec 2012

We know that agriculture reduces biodiversity, which is detrimental to the viability of foraging. Even if the early migrants did not dominate genetically, they changed the "game" by instituting conditions by force that altered the ecosystem. The moment the forests recede, the foragers are faced with a question of survival. Once the rules of the system are in place, they must be followed or people will starve.

I wonder what the ecological tipping point is, such that, when foraging (as a way of life) becomes non-viable once a certain amount of agriculture & cultivation is introduced to an area.

BTW: if you are now trying to suggest that the Europeans were not a different population of shorter stature, does this mean you now understand agriculture coincided with a massive reduction to human health?

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Kill the Economy [View all] Speck Tater Dec 2012 OP

Good riddance NoOneMan Dec 2012 #1

�The modern economy is slavery; it forces everyone to work in such a way their labor is exploited�� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #2

Not a bit NoOneMan Dec 2012 #5

Clearly, you don�t know what �slavery� is� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #6

Forcing you to work to live and exploiting that labor is slavery NoOneMan Dec 2012 #9

That is very clearly framed. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #10

Um� this is BS� seriously OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #12

You know how to free a slave? NoOneMan Dec 2012 #22

You really don�t get it, do you OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #36

Of course a slave wouldn't! NoOneMan Dec 2012 #38

Nonsense OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #42

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Poor impulse control OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #46

Why? Are we born that way? Are we molded that way to benefit something? Do we "choose" it? NoOneMan Dec 2012 #47

I think Wesley had the right idea, that it takes training to combat our �natural instincts� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #48

Natural instincts? I don't see hunter-gatherers going into debt, consuming everything in sight NoOneMan Dec 2012 #49

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Well, what about those around today? NoOneMan Dec 2012 #54

So, tell me� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #57

It is not my home, nor my people NoOneMan Dec 2012 #60

#FirstWorldProblem OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #63

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Employers do not need to beat their employees to make them productive NoOneMan Dec 2012 #40

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Almost everything around us is useless and distracting NoOneMan Dec 2012 #45

�� we believe we "need" (because something taught us so)� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #50

I completely reject your premise that humans just naturally want material objects NoOneMan Dec 2012 #51

Can you demonstrate that this desire for possessions is not natural? OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #53

Homo Sapiens were on earth long before agriculture and religion NoOneMan Dec 2012 #55

Uh huh� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #56

Whoa, don't let that strawman catch on fire before you are done weaving it! NoOneMan Dec 2012 #58

OK, so how about at a much smaller level? OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #61

Its not about hard work NoOneMan Dec 2012 #64

Who programmed the animals? OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #66

Satan. He does everything bad. NoOneMan Dec 2012 #67

Interesting� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #85

No, animals do not have a natural, unlearned concept of private ownership NoOneMan Dec 2012 #86

Interesting� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #89

To be blunt, most animals cannot even prove they are self-aware NoOneMan Dec 2012 #92

Re: �To be blunt, most animals cannot even prove they are self-aware� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #94

Self-awareness and emotions are two different things NoOneMan Dec 2012 #95

I don�t believe I said that emotions and self-awareness were the same OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #96

With all due respect, NoOneMan Dec 2012 #97

So, then, you don�t believe that �animals� exhibit �natural behaviors?� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #98

In a human nature vs nurture issue... NoOneMan Dec 2012 #100

I�m sorry OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #101

Culture NoOneMan Dec 2012 #104

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"Our key error was our choice to see ourselves as being separate from the world that sustains us" NoOneMan Dec 2012 #114

The level that consumerism requires isn't natural. We are conditioned to it as a matter of policy: cprise Dec 2012 #88

I will watch it later OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #90

Aside from consumerism, the medical system does this as well NoOneMan Dec 2012 #99

�It is a proven fact that health has declined drastically since the onset of agriculture�� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #107

Universal health care is like democracy. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #109

�In practice it has problems�� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #113

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I'm fond of Systemantics OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #125

��only makes sense among a diseased population living with stress and nutritional deficiencies.� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #128

Well... NoOneMan Dec 2012 #130

"the neolithic farmers survived. The mesolithic hunter-gathers did not" NoOneMan Dec 2012 #111

Agriculture as �Worst Mistake in the History of the Human Race�? � Anthropology 2.1 OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #124

I feel like Antrosio just rubbed feces into my cortex while urinating on Diamond's name NoOneMan Dec 2012 #126

Did he say the farmers were healthier? OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #127

He didn't have room to say much aside from the ad hominems NoOneMan Dec 2012 #129

�The links you posted are of the same study I posted earlier� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #135

My mistake NoOneMan Dec 2012 #141

I don�t go along with that OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #143

There was interbreeding as well NoOneMan Dec 2012 #144

�� shorter stature � agriculture coincided with a massive reduction to human health� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #145

"A decline of stature of historic populations has been used to indicate nutritional status." NoOneMan Dec 2012 #146

Just curious� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #147

I don't know enough about a "Japanese Diet" to answer that NoOneMan Dec 2012 #148

How convenient! OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #149

So they switched some definiciencies for others NoOneMan Dec 2012 #150

�This is the science. These are the facts.� Uh huh� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #151

Quick, send that link to the paleopathologists! NoOneMan Dec 2012 #152

This message was self-deleted by its author OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #153

Height, health, and development OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #154

Did it every occur to you that they are both correct? NoOneMan Dec 2012 #157

My key point is this OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #164

I think this is where we aren't seeing eye to eye NoOneMan Dec 2012 #165

Coevolution tama Dec 2012 #133

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Its clear humans do those things for other species NoOneMan Dec 2012 #142

"Anthropomorphic selfish gene game theory..." tama Dec 2012 #170

Interesting idea NoOneMan Dec 2012 #171

As Socrates said: tama Dec 2012 #174

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your solution is simple backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #79

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Thank you for making my point DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #103

Really? NoOneMan Dec 2012 #105

actually no DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #117

Agroforestry NoOneMan Dec 2012 #119

OK DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #120

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You might want to look up "ad hominem attack" AlexSatan Dec 2012 #160

Yes, attacking me instead of what I am saying NoOneMan Dec 2012 #161

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"It is just hypocritical to use a system you want to destroy" NoOneMan Dec 2012 #163

of course DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #167

Billions of people are malnourished and a billion face perpetual hunger already NoOneMan Dec 2012 #168

"You are a butthole" == ad hominem attack AlexSatan Dec 2012 #172

Ad Hominem Tu Quoque NoOneMan Dec 2012 #173

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I'm not sure where you are getting this comparison NoOneMan Dec 2012 #169

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hahahahaha DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #69

Rawest end of the forceps you mean? NoOneMan Dec 2012 #70

a few hundred years? DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #71

You want to talk about facts, but you ignore or laugh at: NoOneMan Dec 2012 #72

do provide some PROOF of point one DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #73

Head back to the "hahahaha" NoOneMan Dec 2012 #74

so DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #75

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not quite DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #121

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the kind of "real" that matters is "stuff happening to me directly" - which is starting too phantom power Dec 2012 #3

Kill the economy and everyone lives happily ever after... hunter Dec 2012 #4

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Well in that case I guess we have to pin our hopes on some alien life form Speck Tater Dec 2012 #30

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I don't know. I never get invited! :-) nt Speck Tater Dec 2012 #32

That makes perfect sense. n/t cprise Dec 2012 #33

"'survival of the fittest' does not quite work under these conditions", we THINK. AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #39

You're in E/E now... the context is ecology cprise Dec 2012 #91

You made an assertion. AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #93

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That's a fundamental difference between us. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #14

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Well, let's take micro-loans. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #18

OK, let�s see� OKIsItJustMe Dec 2012 #19

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Certain annual hay plants tama Dec 2012 #134

First example doesn't work Iterate Dec 2012 #20

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GliderGuider, tama Dec 2012 #83

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middle age - been there, done that tama Dec 2012 #131

What a great comeback! GliderGuider Dec 2012 #136

Have you ever considered, NoOneMan Dec 2012 #25

Is this adressed specifically to GliderGuider? cprise Dec 2012 #34

Response to "I prefer to guide what comes next." NoOneMan Dec 2012 #35

No, not to me - but I agree with it completely. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #41