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NoOneMan

(4,795 posts)
20. Well, just to start....
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 01:00 AM
Jan 2013

So, coal/gas is burned to manufacture & distribute them, then you have to pay for them (meaning you had to go to your earth-raping job to get the capital), then that capital gets disbursed and either reinvested into the business (to make more machines) or given to employees who produced/sold the item, who themselves spend it on the own energy-efficient machines (thus reverberating more production across the economy).

If something is new (and you already have an old one), creating it, distributing it, buying it causes production and creates wealth (the ability to command energy) which is inevitably commanded for more production. Its an endless cycle that perpetually increases (as we observe) the velocity of capital/energy in the economic machine.

Is all the consumption that it is to save you in the future worth all the immediate production that is necessary in its purchase, and the production that purchase caused via the multiplier effect (resulting in GDP growth)? If immediate GDP is always growing (which translates to real carbon emissions), despite efficiency savings we might get in the future, is there any real way out of this? Is there some magic point in time when suddenly our consumption levels will stop because everyone has their efficient stuff and we are done making and buying them? Then what happens to the economy? What will be the state of the environment at that point?

But no, I don't think old, inefficient stuff rules. Rather, I think we have a complex system that tends to continually result in more and more energy being consumed. Can we buck the trend? Thats the million dollar question (just don't spend that million on an energy intensive item).

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

The truth about “Jevons Paradox” OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #1
Are you claiming that this somehow disputes the rebound principle? GliderGuider Jan 2013 #2
The “rebound effect” is real, but its magnitude is exaggerated OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #5
I would invite you to read section 5 of the paper. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #8
Truthfully, telling me that a paper proves (among other things) that the “Jevons Paradox…is real”… OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #10
As I said below, GliderGuider Jan 2013 #11
Whose reasoning is motivated? Mine? Yours? or the author’s? OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #12
Well, I'm not throwing up the impassioned defense, and the author just wrote a paper. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #15
Oh, energy efficiency can’t save civilization by itself OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #16
Mangling Energy Efficiency Economics OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #13
Some Dilemma: Efficient Appliances Use Less Energy, Produce the Same Level of Service with Less… OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #14
Well, just to start.... NoOneMan Jan 2013 #20
You buck the system AldoLeopold Jan 2013 #24
Energy Efficiency is for Real, Energy Rebound a Distraction OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #17
I know exactly how the general public will respond to this... Speck Tater Jan 2013 #3
Of course they will. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #4
But on the other hand, what can we expect? Speck Tater Jan 2013 #6
I doubt the general public would be able to understand this even if they wanted too. limpyhobbler Jan 2013 #7
Yes, that's why I posted it here instead of in GD GliderGuider Jan 2013 #9
Prosperity is when everyone has enough to eat, a safe place to sleep... hunter Jan 2013 #18
True that. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #19
I thought prosperity is when everyone within earshot has those things NoOneMan Jan 2013 #21
+1 nt eppur_se_muova Jan 2013 #22
+100 Well said. Starboard Tack Jan 2013 #23
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»No way out? The double-bi...»Reply #20