Environment & Energy

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)

12. Oh yes. I know what we are.

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 02:05 PM

Jan 2013

But we can't help it - it's the way we are. I don't expect other species to be any different than they are, so I don't harbor that unrealistic expectation for our own either. IMO mankind as a whole is not morally or intellectually perfectible in any significant sense - we just are what we are.

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Laying Blame: Population vs. Consumption [View all] GliderGuider Jan 2013 OP

The planet is not in lousy shape. Cary Jan 2013 #1

"Planet" is a shorthand for the biosphere. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #5

I meant only to highlight our own arrogance and stupdity as a species. Cary Jan 2013 #11

Oh yes. I know what we are. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #12

Ah, the big picture. wtmusic Jan 2013 #6

"The problem of industrialization" - not accepting your premise. wtmusic Jan 2013 #2

Well, there you go then! GliderGuider Jan 2013 #3

That's the best you can do? wtmusic Jan 2013 #4

I see no point in arguing - would I be able to change your opinion? GliderGuider Jan 2013 #7

Well, I try to keep an open mind. wtmusic Jan 2013 #9

Yeah, I got reactive in my reply there, sorry. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #10

"At least until some other source provides us with a better power return..." NoOneMan Jan 2013 #14

That feels a lot like the crux of the dilemma to me. nt GliderGuider Jan 2013 #17

If it makes you feel any better, GliderGuider Jan 2013 #8

Agree. We should have powered the industrial revolution with fairy powder NoOneMan Jan 2013 #13

Here's the problem as I see it GliderGuider Jan 2013 #15

If civilization is not, why are we here today and why can't we stop it? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #16

I think that's the thing most people don't understand. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #18

Oil powered the industrial revolution? wtmusic Jan 2013 #21

Sorry, I meant to type "fossil fuels" NoOneMan Jan 2013 #22

I know...oil, coal, nuclear, all that progress shit. wtmusic Jan 2013 #23

Define progress NoOneMan Jan 2013 #24

I'd have to pick "B" wtmusic Jan 2013 #25

I'm not sure how much we have made then (if any at all) NoOneMan Jan 2013 #27

Life expectancy is a pretty good indicator of the human condition wtmusic Jan 2013 #28

I don't really think that has a clear relationship to happiness and suffering. NoOneMan Jan 2013 #29

Google "life expectancy well-being" and you will find overwhelming evidence wtmusic Jan 2013 #30

I'm not really using an established western definition of "well-being" to be honest NoOneMan Jan 2013 #31

I'm using the UN's definition. wtmusic Jan 2013 #32

Are they the authority on human happiness? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #33

Please, define happiness however you like. wtmusic Jan 2013 #34

So your answer is "yes"? All our improved happiness (if we have any) is worth climate change? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #35

Yes, it's worth a certain amount. wtmusic Jan 2013 #36

Then screw climate change. Lets focus on promoting happiness NoOneMan Jan 2013 #37

I don't really need to point out the false dichotomy wtmusic Jan 2013 #38

There is no reason to not throw in the towel NoOneMan Jan 2013 #39

BTW, do you realize every environtmental disaster can now be written off? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #40

The problem is, happiness does not correlate with technology GliderGuider Jan 2013 #41

"I find that comforting" NoOneMan Jan 2013 #42

Our brains didn't evolve to assess risks far into the future. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #43

You've jumped the shark. wtmusic Jan 2013 #44

Actually I'm not going to tell anyone what does or doesn't make them happy. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #45

Population vs Consumption, ... CRH Jan 2013 #19

The Black Queen and leaky fuctions Iterate Jan 2013 #20

Both are killing the planet. (nt) NYC_SKP Jan 2013 #26