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PamW

(1,825 posts)
45. BALONEY!!!
Sat Jan 26, 2013, 09:01 PM
Jan 2013

mother earth,

It's really very simple. In order for our electric grid to stay operational, the generators have to supply exactly as much energy as we draw off the grid. That doesn't mean averaged over the day, like the wind / solar proponents say; it means instant to instant. If the grid stayed up and we continued to draw the energy demanded from it; but the generators were putting less than that amount of energy into the grid; then we would be manufacturing energy out of nothing. The Laws of Physics don't allow for that. The grid would crash.

Think of the grid like your bank checking account. The banks now offer "over-draft protection"; if you write more checks than the amount you have in your account, the bank will loan you the money. As long as your income for the month covers all the checks you wrote that month, it doesn't matter that you wrote a bunch of checks in the early days of the month to cover mortgage and other expenses when you didn't have the money. As long as your income averaged over the month meets your outlay; you are OK.

Now think of how it was before banks offered overdraft protection. Back then, as soon as there was no money in your checking account since it had all been paid out; the bank would refuse to honor your checks due to lack of funds. It didn't matter that you were going to get another paycheck in the middle of the month that would cover the funds.

The Laws of Physics are like this latter case. The Laws of Physics don't extend us temporary credit when it comes to making energy. We have to generate the energy as we use it, and we don't get credit for energy we will generate in the future.

Suppose we run the grid on 100% wind and solar. Now think what happens at night when the wind stops blowing which can certainly happen. The solar panels can't see the sun, so they give us no energy. The wind has stopped, so our wind turbines don't give us energy. Mother Nature has stopped offering us wind / solar energy. If wind / solar were all we had; then the grid would collapse.

We need electric energy 24 / 7 to power our world. We need electric energy 24 / 7 to keep all our refrigeration systems running for our food supply. The whole food delivery chain is based on refrigeration to deliver us healthy food. We need a grid we can count on for that.

So where does the electric energy come from if we only have renewables and Mother Nature stops offering us energy?

NO - we need energy sources that WE control, that we have a throttle on. When the demand goes up; we have a throttle so we can increase generation.

Tell me how we keep a grid powered when the wind stops blowing at night. Solar power goes down for the entire country at night; and we don't have powerlines that reach half-way around the world.

We need more than will. Contrary to your ill-considered statement above, will is NOT ENOUGH.

We have to have systems that are consistent with the Laws of Physics. If the Laws of Physics say "NO"; then all the human will in the world can't get around that.

As long as you keep denying that reality; you are absolutely no better than a climate denier, and have no right to say that you are on the same side as science.

PamW

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More from the article: PearliePoo2 Jan 2013 #1
When exactly is this going to be deemed a global threat? Wonder when the cancer rates will show mother earth Jan 2013 #2
One quick comment MAD Dave Jan 2013 #3
No Flaming but... PearliePoo2 Jan 2013 #5
Fukushima Radiation Found In California Tuna PearliePoo2 Jan 2013 #6
Many fish are migratory so the dilution is not going to help there flamingdem Jan 2013 #7
Sure it would. FBaggins Jan 2013 #62
That formula is only viable for a gamma point source. Sirveri Jan 2013 #10
Mercury is a different bird altogether. MAD Dave Jan 2013 #64
Sounds like you'd be a great help to the Japanese gov't...dump everything into the ocean, our work mother earth Jan 2013 #14
Was that really what was said? No. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #26
You are assuming that ocean currents don't exist and sea life does not move around. kestrel91316 Jan 2013 #51
Rep. Markey wrote an excellent letter to NOAA and the FDA asking pertinent questions... PearliePoo2 Jan 2013 #4
Let's hope Markey continues his work from the Senate! He's great n/t flamingdem Jan 2013 #8
"Everybody RELAX." bvar22 Jan 2013 #9
No scientist is saying there's nothing to worry about. wtmusic Jan 2013 #11
Maybe, maybe not. bvar22 Jan 2013 #13
It may be true! PamW Jan 2013 #17
Sad, really chervilant Jan 2013 #22
A picture is worth a thousand words. PamW Jan 2013 #25
Condescension chervilant Jan 2013 #39
Pot calling the kettle black.. PamW Jan 2013 #41
Again? chervilant Jan 2013 #44
It's NOT presumption PamW Jan 2013 #46
OIC chervilant Jan 2013 #47
Why would I be lucky.. PamW Jan 2013 #48
Wow, Pam chervilant Jan 2013 #53
Bvar was correct kristopher Jan 2013 #56
Indeed chervilant Jan 2013 #57
WRONG AGAIN!!! PamW Jan 2013 #59
Self-serving propaganda? chervilant Jan 2013 #63
Damn it, Kris - I said PWR!!! PamW Jan 2013 #58
You've been pitching that strawman for about a year now. - Correction FBaggins Jan 2013 #60
Straw man speaking there. Updated. longship Jan 2013 #27
Actually, YOUR post is the Strawman. bvar22 Jan 2013 #28
It didn't come off like that. longship Jan 2013 #29
Revisionist History - INCORRECT!!! PamW Jan 2013 #30
Well, you are selective in your history here. longship Jan 2013 #33
More REVISIONIST history PamW Jan 2013 #34
A Clarification longship Jan 2013 #35
If you don't like the response; don't make the mistake. PamW Jan 2013 #36
Mea culpa for my early morning post. longship Jan 2013 #38
Wonder how the fish survived? wtmusic Jan 2013 #12
Another WTF???!!? Adding radiation into the deadly mix isn't helping the planet or humanity. mother earth Jan 2013 #15
Perspective is important wtmusic Jan 2013 #16
Continuing the math.... PamW Jan 2013 #19
Maybe your number is applicable today, but the worst of it is yet to be realized IMHO. I think mother earth Jan 2013 #20
Whether people invest in solar, wind or nuclear, the profit motive is always involved wtmusic Jan 2013 #23
The risks for nuclear power are far too great, and the companies in charge of the sites are mother earth Jan 2013 #24
You've fallen for the anti-nuclear screed, hook, line, and sinker. PamW Jan 2013 #31
You forgot how "scientists" can be stifled & paid off, or must answer to the corporate sponsor or mother earth Jan 2013 #40
That's CRAP and you should know it. PamW Jan 2013 #42
BS, tell that to those that GWB enlisted for his agenda, climate deniers...sorry, YOU have it wrong. mother earth Jan 2013 #43
BALONEY!!! PamW Jan 2013 #45
Spare me your long winded comparisons & try to be succinct. You are writing off alternatives when mother earth Jan 2013 #49
Ignorance of Science doesn't cut it. PamW Jan 2013 #50
Alternative energy is within the realms of science. You are just being ignorant to say it isn't. mother earth Jan 2013 #52
Getting the physics and math right does matter... caraher Jan 2013 #54
McKay's presentation can be very misleading kristopher Jan 2013 #55
Thanks, kristopher caraher Jan 2013 #61
Perspective... PamW Jan 2013 #18
I probably have, but since this OT is about Fukushima, I didn't bring up these other issues as you mother earth Jan 2013 #21
Tradeoffs... PamW Jan 2013 #32
I don't normally get into these wrangles GliderGuider Jan 2013 #37
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