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kristopher

(29,798 posts)
55. McKay's presentation can be very misleading
Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:38 AM
Jan 2013

This blog link is worth reading fully:
http://energynumbers.info/british-energy-demand-and-professor-mackays-estimate-of-it-an-explanation-of-the-differences

...The numbers in the first third of Professor MacKay’s book all lead to the conclusion on page 103 that even if we used all of our renewable resource to its technical maximum, ignoring economic, social and environmental constraints, then it is not enough to meet our energy demand. And that (as he writes later in the book) this applies to Europe too — he writes: “Europe, like Britain, cannot live off its own renewables”.

And yet the figures on 103 are wrong — we all agree on that — you, me, David, the official statistics. So any conclusion based on them must be in doubt.

Indeed, there are plenty of reasons for doubt — because in addition to the inflated demand, the first third of the book also contains economic, social, and environmental constraints on supply, despite the statement to the contrary (I’ll write a bit more about the supply side in a new article, later). So those are not about the physics of the thing at all — they’re opinions. So, we have an inflated demand, and a set of political opinions on supply. That’s not (in Professor MacKay’s words) “what the laws of physics say about the limits of sustainable energy”.

As it turns out, Britain’s renewable resource is an order of magnitude higher than our energy demand.

And so Britain, (just like Europe and the whole world) can get 100% of its energy from renewable resources.



A much better approach is demonstrated by work such as this:
Cost-minimized combinations of wind power, solar power and electrochemical storage, powering the grid up to 99.9% of the time
Abstract
We model many combinations of renewable electricity sources (inland wind, offshore wind, and photovoltaics) with electrochemical storage (batteries and fuel cells), incorporated into a large grid system (72 GW). The purpose is twofold: 1) although a single renewable generator at one site produces intermittent power, we seek combinations of diverse renewables at diverse sites, with storage, that are not intermittent and satisfy need a given fraction of hours. And 2) we seek minimal cost, calculating true cost of electricity without subsidies and with inclusion of external costs. Our model evaluated over 28 billion combinations of renewables and storage, each tested over 35,040 h (four years) of load and weather data. We find that the least cost solutions yield seemingly-excessive generation capacity—at times, almost three times the electricity needed to meet electrical load. This is because diverse renewable generation and the excess capacity together meet electric load with less storage, lowering total system cost. At 2030 technology costs and with excess electricity displacing natural gas, we find that the electric system can be powered 90%–99.9% of hours entirely on renewable electricity, at costs comparable to today's—but only if we optimize the mix of generation and storage technologies.


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378775312014759


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More from the article: PearliePoo2 Jan 2013 #1
When exactly is this going to be deemed a global threat? Wonder when the cancer rates will show mother earth Jan 2013 #2
One quick comment MAD Dave Jan 2013 #3
No Flaming but... PearliePoo2 Jan 2013 #5
Fukushima Radiation Found In California Tuna PearliePoo2 Jan 2013 #6
Many fish are migratory so the dilution is not going to help there flamingdem Jan 2013 #7
Sure it would. FBaggins Jan 2013 #62
That formula is only viable for a gamma point source. Sirveri Jan 2013 #10
Mercury is a different bird altogether. MAD Dave Jan 2013 #64
Sounds like you'd be a great help to the Japanese gov't...dump everything into the ocean, our work mother earth Jan 2013 #14
Was that really what was said? No. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #26
You are assuming that ocean currents don't exist and sea life does not move around. kestrel91316 Jan 2013 #51
Rep. Markey wrote an excellent letter to NOAA and the FDA asking pertinent questions... PearliePoo2 Jan 2013 #4
Let's hope Markey continues his work from the Senate! He's great n/t flamingdem Jan 2013 #8
"Everybody RELAX." bvar22 Jan 2013 #9
No scientist is saying there's nothing to worry about. wtmusic Jan 2013 #11
Maybe, maybe not. bvar22 Jan 2013 #13
It may be true! PamW Jan 2013 #17
Sad, really chervilant Jan 2013 #22
A picture is worth a thousand words. PamW Jan 2013 #25
Condescension chervilant Jan 2013 #39
Pot calling the kettle black.. PamW Jan 2013 #41
Again? chervilant Jan 2013 #44
It's NOT presumption PamW Jan 2013 #46
OIC chervilant Jan 2013 #47
Why would I be lucky.. PamW Jan 2013 #48
Wow, Pam chervilant Jan 2013 #53
Bvar was correct kristopher Jan 2013 #56
Indeed chervilant Jan 2013 #57
WRONG AGAIN!!! PamW Jan 2013 #59
Self-serving propaganda? chervilant Jan 2013 #63
Damn it, Kris - I said PWR!!! PamW Jan 2013 #58
You've been pitching that strawman for about a year now. - Correction FBaggins Jan 2013 #60
Straw man speaking there. Updated. longship Jan 2013 #27
Actually, YOUR post is the Strawman. bvar22 Jan 2013 #28
It didn't come off like that. longship Jan 2013 #29
Revisionist History - INCORRECT!!! PamW Jan 2013 #30
Well, you are selective in your history here. longship Jan 2013 #33
More REVISIONIST history PamW Jan 2013 #34
A Clarification longship Jan 2013 #35
If you don't like the response; don't make the mistake. PamW Jan 2013 #36
Mea culpa for my early morning post. longship Jan 2013 #38
Wonder how the fish survived? wtmusic Jan 2013 #12
Another WTF???!!? Adding radiation into the deadly mix isn't helping the planet or humanity. mother earth Jan 2013 #15
Perspective is important wtmusic Jan 2013 #16
Continuing the math.... PamW Jan 2013 #19
Maybe your number is applicable today, but the worst of it is yet to be realized IMHO. I think mother earth Jan 2013 #20
Whether people invest in solar, wind or nuclear, the profit motive is always involved wtmusic Jan 2013 #23
The risks for nuclear power are far too great, and the companies in charge of the sites are mother earth Jan 2013 #24
You've fallen for the anti-nuclear screed, hook, line, and sinker. PamW Jan 2013 #31
You forgot how "scientists" can be stifled & paid off, or must answer to the corporate sponsor or mother earth Jan 2013 #40
That's CRAP and you should know it. PamW Jan 2013 #42
BS, tell that to those that GWB enlisted for his agenda, climate deniers...sorry, YOU have it wrong. mother earth Jan 2013 #43
BALONEY!!! PamW Jan 2013 #45
Spare me your long winded comparisons & try to be succinct. You are writing off alternatives when mother earth Jan 2013 #49
Ignorance of Science doesn't cut it. PamW Jan 2013 #50
Alternative energy is within the realms of science. You are just being ignorant to say it isn't. mother earth Jan 2013 #52
Getting the physics and math right does matter... caraher Jan 2013 #54
McKay's presentation can be very misleading kristopher Jan 2013 #55
Thanks, kristopher caraher Jan 2013 #61
Perspective... PamW Jan 2013 #18
I probably have, but since this OT is about Fukushima, I didn't bring up these other issues as you mother earth Jan 2013 #21
Tradeoffs... PamW Jan 2013 #32
I don't normally get into these wrangles GliderGuider Jan 2013 #37
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