Environment & Energy

Nederland

(9,979 posts)

28. There is no edge

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 12:54 PM

Jan 2013

You can't "tiptoe up to the edge, and then slowly back away" if there is no cliff. The fundamental problem is that you ignore the key difference between humans and reindeer. Reindeer do not grow their own food, humans do. We grow a certain amount of food every year, and if that food cannot feed everyone then a certain number of people die. There is nothing new here, that's the way its been for thousands of years, ever since we started farming. The only way that the human population could ever "crash" is if there was a sudden collapse of grain production on the order of 70%+. You've never explained why or how that would happen.

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Nicholas Stern: 'I got it wrong on climate change � it's far, far worse' [View all] xchrom Jan 2013 OP

It's Not Nice To Fool With Mother Nature cantbeserious Jan 2013 #1

At the risk of PATRICK Jan 2013 #2

Actually there's a good reason for that. caseymoz Jan 2013 #5

Ehrlich's Population Bomb pscot Jan 2013 #15

We were already beyond the limits of sustainability caseymoz Jan 2013 #16

The population bomb was *temporarily* defused by the GR. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #17

No internal constraints? Nederland Jan 2013 #20

It's called overshoot NickB79 Jan 2013 #26

But we're *human beings*! GliderGuider Jan 2013 #27

Exactly Nederland Jan 2013 #30

"You believe" it makes the analogies invalid. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #32

True, and I provided an explanation for my beliefs Nederland Jan 2013 #36

Using that reasoning, I cannot fathom why any past civilization has collapsed NoOneMan Jan 2013 #40

I think both are only partially true. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #43

Previous civilizations were not global... Nederland Jan 2013 #46

By the same token, I'm just saying GliderGuider Jan 2013 #50

A distinction without a difference? Nederland Jan 2013 #54

Yes GliderGuider Jan 2013 #58

You need to get up to date Nederland Jan 2013 #89

"most did not collapse from lack of food" NoOneMan Jan 2013 #59

Radically different how? NickB79 Jan 2013 #33

These ways Nederland Jan 2013 #34

"in a way that ensures that adjustments will be made..." NoOneMan Jan 2013 #39

Humans have always been exceptional. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #44

Market forces will replace the Laurentian Shield with 24-36" of rich, loamy topsoil . . . hatrack Jan 2013 #45

This message was self-deleted by its author Nederland Jan 2013 #49

Where does that pic come from? Nederland Jan 2013 #47

That's a BBC article using data now published from Ortiz of Cimmyt NoOneMan Jan 2013 #51

Did you actually read the article? Nederland Jan 2013 #55

Ortiz, the author, is a research agronomist for CIMMYT GliderGuider Jan 2013 #56

That paper only deals with wheat Nederland Jan 2013 #60

Wiggle much? GliderGuider Jan 2013 #62

This guy says much the same: NoOneMan Jan 2013 #64

You are the one that is shifting the goalposts Nederland Jan 2013 #67

That question has been answered already. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #68

By which post? (nt) Nederland Jan 2013 #70

By this one GliderGuider Jan 2013 #71

How many times do you have to make the same mistake? Nederland Jan 2013 #72

The issue is the productivity and utility of the plants that might be substituted. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #81

One could ask you the same question. Nihil Jan 2013 #93

Agreed, but now follow through Nederland Jan 2013 #94

What, you've never heard of groupthink? GliderGuider Jan 2013 #95

Primarily, but maize is mentioned NoOneMan Jan 2013 #63

A peer review look at the issue Nederland Jan 2013 #52

"Climate change is expected to increase yields" NoOneMan Jan 2013 #57

BTW, did anyone else notice those articles were from 1994 and 1999? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #61

Good catch Nederland Jan 2013 #73

Except those recent food scarcity studies directly contradict your lies NoOneMan Jan 2013 #74

And yet time and time again, the animal model,... TheMadMonk Jan 2013 #66

There is no edge Nederland Jan 2013 #28

You're ignoring topsoil depletion NickB79 Jan 2013 #31

No I'm not Nederland Jan 2013 #35

So, the Invisible Hand then? NickB79 Jan 2013 #37

Massive collapse? Nederland Jan 2013 #38

"create an enormous incentive to"...feed the people with the wealth to pay for the resource NoOneMan Jan 2013 #41

I agree Nederland Jan 2013 #48

The nation of "let them die" as a healthcare platform (still) will feed its poor? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #53

News Flash: The Poor are Already Dying Nederland Jan 2013 #69

At the apex of agrarian civilization, with mild headwinds NoOneMan Jan 2013 #75

What is your point? Nederland Jan 2013 #78

That its not going to be an uphill ride NoOneMan Jan 2013 #80

That's one hell of a paper you found. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #82

Deja Vu Nederland Jan 2013 #83

Climate change is "the same old tripe"? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #84

Posted in the wrong place? Nederland Jan 2013 #86

So temperature increases will not bring harm (doom) to some people? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #88

Harm yes, doom no (nt) Nederland Jan 2013 #90

So when studies suggest that 3 billion face famine, or entire countries will be underwater NoOneMan Jan 2013 #91

Over what time frame? Nederland Jan 2013 #92

So how was lunch with Julian Simon? GliderGuider Jan 2013 #85

Good. He paid with the money he won betting Paul Ehrlich Nederland Jan 2013 #87

And wasted by those self same peoples. TheMadMonk Jan 2013 #65

The 'Green Revolution' did not defuse the Population Bomb Nederland Jan 2013 #19

So Norman Borlaug didn't deserve a Nobel Prize after all? GliderGuider Jan 2013 #22

He certainly deserved it Nederland Jan 2013 #23

No, you said "The Green Revolution did not defuse the Population Bomb". GliderGuider Jan 2013 #25

There is a population problem Nederland Jan 2013 #29

They have always emphasized that their estimates are conservative. Downwinder Jan 2013 #6

Lord Stark warns us that winter is coming. RadiationTherapy Jan 2013 #3

Yes, Winter is Comin' (love that show) tavalon Jan 2013 #7

Great point! dreamnightwind Jan 2013 #21

D'oh Berlum Jan 2013 #4

It's not planetary fail, though tavalon Jan 2013 #8

"The earth is an organism, and that organism has a skin; that skin has diseases... alterfurz Jan 2013 #12

I've never been compared to Nietzsche tavalon Jan 2013 #13

I think you're supposed to feel pscot Jan 2013 #18

It's easier than thinking. Fuddnik Jan 2013 #9

Seriously, if I hear "it's in God's hands" once more mountain grammy Jan 2013 #11

Nice pic Nederland Jan 2013 #24

"climate change advocates aren't being taken seriously" NoOneMan Jan 2013 #42

I see Nederland Jan 2013 #76

He's "talking" about it now NoOneMan Jan 2013 #77

Sure, now that he's never running again... (nt) Nederland Jan 2013 #79

Once again, It is the bean counters sounding alarm, ... CRH Jan 2013 #10

well that sucks. nt limpyhobbler Jan 2013 #14