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GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
4. Yes, you're seeing the humanist blockage up close and personal.
Sat Mar 2, 2013, 09:15 AM
Mar 2013

"That's OK for everything else in the universe, but dammit, we're special!" I'm glad you can acknowledge the disconnect inherent in that view.

I see "free choice" and intelligence simply as an emergent means to let us look for and use more energy more effectively. It has given us a much wider choice of energy sources than any other animal, and that's the whole ballgame. My view is that the universe doesn't give a damn whether our species dies out, and as products of the universe, on some level neither do we. As a species we care most about sticking with the program, and if it means we have to put up with inconveniences like global warming - oh well, that's the price we have to pay.

The reason we can't get a handle on all our growth-related issues like climate change, population growth, consumption growth, urbanization, resource depletion and the increasing disparity between rich and poor is that those are all part of the thermodynamic process we're fulfilling.

The core message is, "You can't fight Mother nature." And Mother Nature IS the laws of thermodynamics. The horrifying dilemma is that we may be able to figure out what's going on, but we can't stop it.

The idea of "motivation for our actions" is an interesting one in this context. There's a general distaste in science for teleological explanations: "Nature wants us to do thus and so," or "Evolution has this goal." But we're all quite content to use those formulations for choices that come from our own minds. My take on it is that our actions are shaped by these underlying universal laws, but we rationalize our choices in order to make them personally and culturally acceptable. Our cultural superstructure (values, beliefs etc.) is much more of an explanatory device than a directive mechanism - especially where matters of energy and entropy are concerned.

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Thermodynamic footprints [View all] GliderGuider Mar 2013 OP
Looks like good work. napoleon_in_rags Mar 2013 #1
My first thought is GliderGuider Mar 2013 #2
I think some of your statements, ... CRH Mar 2013 #3
Yes, you're seeing the humanist blockage up close and personal. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #4
I think we agree more than we disagree, ... CRH Mar 2013 #5
"reading this paper earlier in the week was the greatest "Eureka!" moment I've ever had in my life" kristopher Mar 2013 #6
Building an "integrated, holistic and thoughtful understanding" is exactly what I'm doing. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #7
This is what I see kristopher Mar 2013 #8
And I have no doubt that Swenson and Odum would think I'm bastardizing their work as well. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #9
Recall please... kristopher Mar 2013 #10
Yes, and in fact my view on determinism hasn't changed. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #11
No he isn't kristopher Mar 2013 #12
Well he's out of luck. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #13
You can't explain why Harris rejects your assertions regarding ... kristopher Mar 2013 #14
I don't make absolute assertions about that - at least not any more. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #15
Very nice. Ghost Dog Mar 2013 #16
I don't think it would be a violation. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #17
Eureka! I love that. napoleon_in_rags Mar 2013 #18
Sweet! GliderGuider Mar 2013 #19
Well, the boat can always get bigger. napoleon_in_rags Mar 2013 #20
I know what you mean. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #21
I relate to that actually. napoleon_in_rags Mar 2013 #22
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