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GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
17. I don't think it would be a violation.
Sat Mar 2, 2013, 06:12 PM
Mar 2013

All the principle says is that self-organizing systems transform energy as fast as they can, and that the degree of transformation governs the degree of organization. If a potential energy gradient isn't as steep any more, the system that uses it may progressively lose organization until it can no longer retain coherence. There are a couple of ways (at least) that a system can fight to retain its coherence in such a situation. The obvious one is to find another gradient - a different energy source. Another is to increase its efficiency at turning the remaining potential energy into work.

We're seeing this at work in human society already, in the push to develop alternative energy sources and the drive to increase energy efficiency. That doesn't necessarily mean that we are on the brink of losing coherence though, because healthy ACK systems use the same techniques to increase their growth and organization. However, it's the behavior I would expect in a system that recognizes an imminent threat to its coherence and is trying to stave off decoherence. I'm of course talking about the threat of climate change here.

The Green Revolution was a similar defense mechanism. Starvation and the stagnation of population growth due to food supply limits was the threat to coherence. The response was to increase production efficiency through the use of fossil fuels. From a thermodynamic perspective that move can be seen as inevitable, because it had the benefit of hugely increasing the entropic component of agricultural activity. The evidence that it worked as expected is the increase of order and hierarchy within the agricultural system (i.e. the appearance of corporations like Cargill and Monsanto).

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Thermodynamic footprints [View all] GliderGuider Mar 2013 OP
Looks like good work. napoleon_in_rags Mar 2013 #1
My first thought is GliderGuider Mar 2013 #2
I think some of your statements, ... CRH Mar 2013 #3
Yes, you're seeing the humanist blockage up close and personal. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #4
I think we agree more than we disagree, ... CRH Mar 2013 #5
"reading this paper earlier in the week was the greatest "Eureka!" moment I've ever had in my life" kristopher Mar 2013 #6
Building an "integrated, holistic and thoughtful understanding" is exactly what I'm doing. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #7
This is what I see kristopher Mar 2013 #8
And I have no doubt that Swenson and Odum would think I'm bastardizing their work as well. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #9
Recall please... kristopher Mar 2013 #10
Yes, and in fact my view on determinism hasn't changed. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #11
No he isn't kristopher Mar 2013 #12
Well he's out of luck. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #13
You can't explain why Harris rejects your assertions regarding ... kristopher Mar 2013 #14
I don't make absolute assertions about that - at least not any more. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #15
Very nice. Ghost Dog Mar 2013 #16
I don't think it would be a violation. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #17
Eureka! I love that. napoleon_in_rags Mar 2013 #18
Sweet! GliderGuider Mar 2013 #19
Well, the boat can always get bigger. napoleon_in_rags Mar 2013 #20
I know what you mean. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #21
I relate to that actually. napoleon_in_rags Mar 2013 #22
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Thermodynamic footprints»Reply #17