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Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
18. Why is your upper limit "a non-energy-assisted society of hunter-forager-gardeners"?
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 03:19 PM
Mar 2013

Even without resort to any fossil fuels, we can have "energy assistance" through renewables. For example, your calculation of habitable land excludes deserts, but uninhabited deserts can be the sites of large-scale solar energy arrays that would assist people living elsewhere.

Please don't lump me in with the technological deus ex machina types who think that we can keep growing indefinitely because science will always be there with a new fix -- nuclear power or "Green Revolution" crops or whatever. There's absolutely no question that the human population is now far too high and that the problem is getting worse. The only open question is how the correction will come, and I would have to side with the pessimists who foresee famine, plague, and war as the most likely "solutions" (as opposed to a population that declines because higher living standards mean people don't need to have a lot of children to ensure survival in their old age).

Nevertheless, there's a big gap between saying that seven billion is too high and saying that anything over 50 million is too high. I recall seeing some other analysis that settled on one billion as the sustainable human population. Of course, just getting to one billion (without the widespread famine etc.) will be difficult enough.

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I thought our population was 6,000 times too big. wtmusic Mar 2013 #1
G'day, mate! I wonder how many ways there are to say, GliderGuider Mar 2013 #2
What is the percentage of people across the globe LWolf Mar 2013 #3
Pretty much. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #4
To summarize: LWolf Mar 2013 #11
Pithy and succinct. I like it. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #13
No it isn't. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #36
Well, now... chervilant Mar 2013 #21
Yes. LWolf Mar 2013 #25
Need to start eating bugs. Neoma Mar 2013 #5
That's why they're called meal-worms, isn't it? GliderGuider Mar 2013 #6
I was being serious. Neoma Mar 2013 #9
I know, just trying to lighten up an other wise deadly-serious topic. nt GliderGuider Mar 2013 #10
Best I can do is recycle and be vegetarian. Neoma Mar 2013 #15
Recycle, Freecycle, and chervilant Mar 2013 #22
I live in a condo, no room for that stuff. Neoma Mar 2013 #23
Have you finalized which 50 million get to continue breathing? FBaggins Mar 2013 #7
Nope. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #12
I've been saying this for decades BlancheSplanchnik Mar 2013 #8
Could I advise you to save your breath, energy and friendships? GliderGuider Mar 2013 #14
I know too. BlancheSplanchnik Mar 2013 #16
Hey!!! chervilant Mar 2013 #24
"can't hear you. They will resent you for saying it. " stuntcat Mar 2013 #17
This morning I did a little thought experiment on involuntary population decline GliderGuider Mar 2013 #20
hmm... chervilant Mar 2013 #26
I wonder if your students.. stuntcat Mar 2013 #29
Can I just point out there's no 'data' in the OP at all muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #33
I think that if you're right, you should take it up with the OP poster. BlancheSplanchnik Mar 2013 #34
Why is your upper limit "a non-energy-assisted society of hunter-forager-gardeners"? Jim Lane Mar 2013 #18
Because my definition of "sustainability" is too strict to allow for technological renewables GliderGuider Mar 2013 #19
Thanks for the clarification, but I disagree -- there should be some room for technology. Jim Lane Mar 2013 #31
If that turns you on, by all means go for it. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #32
I think your numbers are low, but the gist is right. napoleon_in_rags Mar 2013 #27
I'm not trying to present this as some kind of "population target". GliderGuider Mar 2013 #28
So, even the Georgia Guidestones figure of "500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature", is high. NYC_SKP Mar 2013 #30
My assumption about the number that represents sustainability is just that - an assumption GliderGuider Mar 2013 #35
"1500% into overshoot" ... should be 14900%. nt eppur_se_muova Mar 2013 #37
Yeah, I realized that later. My web article has it corrected. GliderGuider Mar 2013 #38
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