Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)
1. Very interesting. A major fallacy in the energy world is that the same technology can
Wed Apr 24, 2013, 06:17 PM
Apr 2013

or should serve cell phones, cars, and power plants. That proposition is nonsensical, as the requirements are entirely different. Cell phones need compact storage, but not much power.

Cars need lots of power, fast recharge time, and not too much weight and much lower cost than today's technologies.

The power grid needs batteries that can scale tens of thousands of times greater than car batteries. Cost is not all that important as long as the cost can be amortized over many customers and many charge cycles. And weight/space isn't a concern at all.

Some nitwits have talked about truly hair-brained schemes where we would connect our cars to the grid so that our cars would be the batteries that would handle the ups and downs of the power grid. Not hardly. When you plug your car in, you want it ti recharge -- not go up and down in charge depending on how the grid happens to be doing.

These flow batteries appear to be highly scalable at a reasonable cost.

There are other companies looking at flywheels to store the excess power. It is nice to see several promising technologies evolving simultaneously.

This stuff is moving much quicker than many people realize. In many parts of the country, coal-fired generators are being shut down entirely. Do a Google search on "coal plants shut down". I got 4.5 million hits. And many of them show the EPA working actively to close these things down. This demonstrates the value of holding the White House. Some of that shutdown activity would happen on its own as natural gas and renewables win the economic argument. But the EPA is able to speed this change along by driving shuttering decisions based on the pollution factors.

The UK may close its last coal-fired power plant in under 10 years.

A huge scalable battery system changes the economics of wind power. Right now you must have lots of combustion-based power plants to handle the ups and downs. As giant batteries become viable, that will allow us to drop the combustion and nuke plants to 10-20% of our generation capacity.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Very interesting. A major fallacy in the energy world is that the same technology can BlueStreak Apr 2013 #1
“… Some nitwits have talked about truly hair-brained schemes …” OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #2
Why would I want to own an electric car if the power company could BlueStreak Apr 2013 #3
While I’m skeptical of V2G I believe your estimation is off OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #4
In that example, I believe they ran the gas engine BlueStreak Apr 2013 #5
I don’t mean to suggest that people should do this themselves OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #6
"Drain EVs" dramatically oversimplifies the proposal. FBaggins Apr 2013 #7
Regarding the third area BlueStreak Apr 2013 #8
No... I mean actual supply/demand spikes. FBaggins Apr 2013 #9
V2G efficiency losses are at least 20% wtmusic Apr 2013 #11
Did you read the reply? FBaggins Apr 2013 #12
Or, put another way, it’s about 80% efficient OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #15
Do you like green eggs and ham? (Why?) wtmusic Apr 2013 #18
Maybe I don't understand the leveling problem BlueStreak Apr 2013 #14
Agree on V2G, fuel cells have been a few years away for 20 years wtmusic Apr 2013 #10
EVs are way under 1% of the market BlueStreak Apr 2013 #13
Automotive (hydrogen) fuel cells will never happen. wtmusic Apr 2013 #16
They’re already here OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #17
They've been "here" for twenty years. wtmusic Apr 2013 #19
No, they”re being assembled now. OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #20
They're selling them to fleets wtmusic Apr 2013 #21
Um… perhaps they want an actual clean technology OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #22
Compressed H2 reformed from natural gas is significantly more efficient used in an FCV wtmusic Apr 2013 #27
Yeah, I didn’t want to overstate the case OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #32
Let's find out. wtmusic Apr 2013 #35
“Apparently the difference has to do with electricity used in the reforming process.” OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #36
From a manufacturer who's hyping their FCV and doesn't offer a BEV. wtmusic Apr 2013 #37
Now, why do you suppose he would be irrationally attracted to FCEV’s? OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #38
For the same reason VW was attracted to them? wtmusic Apr 2013 #39
I guess we’ll see OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #40
In situ Hydrogen generation (talk about a political football) BlueStreak Apr 2013 #24
You could generate your own hydrogen from a solar array wtmusic Apr 2013 #25
That may all be true. What it boils down is that both camps are hoping for a miracle BlueStreak Apr 2013 #26
There are 50,000 people in the U.S. driving cars which you say are not "anywhere close" wtmusic Apr 2013 #28
What do you drive? BlueStreak Apr 2013 #30
The one huge disadvantage of EVs BlueStreak Apr 2013 #29
Recharging is really not a problem. wtmusic Apr 2013 #31
For me, that would work as a SECOND car if it had twice the range BlueStreak Apr 2013 #34
Pressurization may not be the challenge you imagine OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #33
Think of the market for ... oldhippie Apr 2013 #23
The name of the team leader might be familiar to some longtime EE readers kristopher Apr 2013 #41
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»New (Flow) Battery Design...»Reply #1