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FBaggins

(28,678 posts)
7. "Drain EVs" dramatically oversimplifies the proposal.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 10:34 AM
Apr 2013

There are three critical challenges to the variability of some renewables. One is what you're addressing... the fact that the grid can go for extended periods of time (occasionally days) with little to no generation from those sources. EVs won't do much to help that (though I could imagine a use in my home). It wouldn't make sense to have a system that could result in the owner waking up in the morning and not being able to get to work.

But that's not really how they expect this to work.

The second challenge is the mirror of the first. Sometimes they produce "too much" power and the grid operator has to do something with it while they adjust more controllable output. EVs combined with a smarter grid could fill that demand as they charge on power that would be incredibly cheap (since it would otherwise be thrown away). Both the consumer and the grid operator benefit.

But that too is only a small part of it.

The third challenge is that this variability is not day by day or hour by hour. It's a constant fluctuation that gets more and more challenging to manage as variable sources increase their penetration in the market. This is on top of the already existing challenge of the momentary fluctuations on the demand side as well.

This is where I think V2G solutions really could shine. They could go a long way toward smoothing that instantaneous variability (on both the supply and demand side)... and they can do so without any risk to your morning commute. I would imagine utilities offering you a guarantee that they will charge the vehicle when supply is cheap and only drain down to a given point (say, 90% full). This would allow them to not only increase the penetration of renewables generation, but also keep prices down by avoiding the most expensive peaking power costs - all without extreme expense for grid-scale storage.

This would, of course, require a significant market penetration of EVs as well as a much smarter grid, but there are synergies there that make it very attractive.

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Very interesting. A major fallacy in the energy world is that the same technology can BlueStreak Apr 2013 #1
“… Some nitwits have talked about truly hair-brained schemes …” OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #2
Why would I want to own an electric car if the power company could BlueStreak Apr 2013 #3
While I’m skeptical of V2G I believe your estimation is off OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #4
In that example, I believe they ran the gas engine BlueStreak Apr 2013 #5
I don’t mean to suggest that people should do this themselves OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #6
"Drain EVs" dramatically oversimplifies the proposal. FBaggins Apr 2013 #7
Regarding the third area BlueStreak Apr 2013 #8
No... I mean actual supply/demand spikes. FBaggins Apr 2013 #9
V2G efficiency losses are at least 20% wtmusic Apr 2013 #11
Did you read the reply? FBaggins Apr 2013 #12
Or, put another way, it’s about 80% efficient OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #15
Do you like green eggs and ham? (Why?) wtmusic Apr 2013 #18
Maybe I don't understand the leveling problem BlueStreak Apr 2013 #14
Agree on V2G, fuel cells have been a few years away for 20 years wtmusic Apr 2013 #10
EVs are way under 1% of the market BlueStreak Apr 2013 #13
Automotive (hydrogen) fuel cells will never happen. wtmusic Apr 2013 #16
They’re already here OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #17
They've been "here" for twenty years. wtmusic Apr 2013 #19
No, they”re being assembled now. OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #20
They're selling them to fleets wtmusic Apr 2013 #21
Um… perhaps they want an actual clean technology OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #22
Compressed H2 reformed from natural gas is significantly more efficient used in an FCV wtmusic Apr 2013 #27
Yeah, I didn’t want to overstate the case OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #32
Let's find out. wtmusic Apr 2013 #35
“Apparently the difference has to do with electricity used in the reforming process.” OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #36
From a manufacturer who's hyping their FCV and doesn't offer a BEV. wtmusic Apr 2013 #37
Now, why do you suppose he would be irrationally attracted to FCEV’s? OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #38
For the same reason VW was attracted to them? wtmusic Apr 2013 #39
I guess we’ll see OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #40
In situ Hydrogen generation (talk about a political football) BlueStreak Apr 2013 #24
You could generate your own hydrogen from a solar array wtmusic Apr 2013 #25
That may all be true. What it boils down is that both camps are hoping for a miracle BlueStreak Apr 2013 #26
There are 50,000 people in the U.S. driving cars which you say are not "anywhere close" wtmusic Apr 2013 #28
What do you drive? BlueStreak Apr 2013 #30
The one huge disadvantage of EVs BlueStreak Apr 2013 #29
Recharging is really not a problem. wtmusic Apr 2013 #31
For me, that would work as a SECOND car if it had twice the range BlueStreak Apr 2013 #34
Pressurization may not be the challenge you imagine OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #33
Think of the market for ... oldhippie Apr 2013 #23
The name of the team leader might be familiar to some longtime EE readers kristopher Apr 2013 #41
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