Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)
8. Regarding the third area
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 12:26 PM
Apr 2013

I believe you are talking about the "near end points' (so to speak) of the power grid. That is where one user can momentarily suck enough juice to drop the voltage of other nearby subscribers.

But I still don't see how depending on cars being plugged in is a smart architecture. Not only is it a hostile act to take precious electrons out of my car battery, if several of us happen not to be plugged in at that moment, it seems like that whole premise falls apart.

In the end, I expect that power companies will deploy their own batteries in these situations, just like they manage their own transformers. And technologies like "flow" batteries would seem to be orders of magnitude more scalable and economical than car batteries, and also accept a far faster and deeper charge/discharge cycles. They have a lot of space and weight, so that would not work in a vehicle, but that is no problem sitting at a power substation.

The bottom line, as I see it, is that EVs are nowhere near being commercially viable at this point. And they can only inch their way toward viability with batteries that are highly optimized for the job of powering a car. This is an entirely different set of properties from what the grid needs. If there were one perfect battery that was optimal for all applications, then maybe I could see this concept better, but that is not where batteries are today and I don't believe that is where they will be 10 years from now.

Moreover, there is a serious question whether battery-powered cars will ever be all that common. We seem to be not many years away from economical fuel cells, and that might overtake the Leafs and Teslas of the world. If that happens, this power grid concept just won't develop.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Very interesting. A major fallacy in the energy world is that the same technology can BlueStreak Apr 2013 #1
“… Some nitwits have talked about truly hair-brained schemes …” OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #2
Why would I want to own an electric car if the power company could BlueStreak Apr 2013 #3
While I’m skeptical of V2G I believe your estimation is off OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #4
In that example, I believe they ran the gas engine BlueStreak Apr 2013 #5
I don’t mean to suggest that people should do this themselves OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #6
"Drain EVs" dramatically oversimplifies the proposal. FBaggins Apr 2013 #7
Regarding the third area BlueStreak Apr 2013 #8
No... I mean actual supply/demand spikes. FBaggins Apr 2013 #9
V2G efficiency losses are at least 20% wtmusic Apr 2013 #11
Did you read the reply? FBaggins Apr 2013 #12
Or, put another way, it’s about 80% efficient OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #15
Do you like green eggs and ham? (Why?) wtmusic Apr 2013 #18
Maybe I don't understand the leveling problem BlueStreak Apr 2013 #14
Agree on V2G, fuel cells have been a few years away for 20 years wtmusic Apr 2013 #10
EVs are way under 1% of the market BlueStreak Apr 2013 #13
Automotive (hydrogen) fuel cells will never happen. wtmusic Apr 2013 #16
They’re already here OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #17
They've been "here" for twenty years. wtmusic Apr 2013 #19
No, they”re being assembled now. OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #20
They're selling them to fleets wtmusic Apr 2013 #21
Um… perhaps they want an actual clean technology OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #22
Compressed H2 reformed from natural gas is significantly more efficient used in an FCV wtmusic Apr 2013 #27
Yeah, I didn’t want to overstate the case OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #32
Let's find out. wtmusic Apr 2013 #35
“Apparently the difference has to do with electricity used in the reforming process.” OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #36
From a manufacturer who's hyping their FCV and doesn't offer a BEV. wtmusic Apr 2013 #37
Now, why do you suppose he would be irrationally attracted to FCEV’s? OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #38
For the same reason VW was attracted to them? wtmusic Apr 2013 #39
I guess we’ll see OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #40
In situ Hydrogen generation (talk about a political football) BlueStreak Apr 2013 #24
You could generate your own hydrogen from a solar array wtmusic Apr 2013 #25
That may all be true. What it boils down is that both camps are hoping for a miracle BlueStreak Apr 2013 #26
There are 50,000 people in the U.S. driving cars which you say are not "anywhere close" wtmusic Apr 2013 #28
What do you drive? BlueStreak Apr 2013 #30
The one huge disadvantage of EVs BlueStreak Apr 2013 #29
Recharging is really not a problem. wtmusic Apr 2013 #31
For me, that would work as a SECOND car if it had twice the range BlueStreak Apr 2013 #34
Pressurization may not be the challenge you imagine OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #33
Think of the market for ... oldhippie Apr 2013 #23
The name of the team leader might be familiar to some longtime EE readers kristopher Apr 2013 #41
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»New (Flow) Battery Design...»Reply #8