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FBaggins

(28,703 posts)
9. No... I mean actual supply/demand spikes.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 01:23 PM
Apr 2013

On a small scale they aren't a big deal, but they add up.

I'll give you an example.

A common demand-management technique is to get homeowners to connect their electric hot water heater in such a way that the utility can turn it off if it needs to. That way, when demand peaks on a hot day in the summer, they can flatten the peak of demand and save money (passing some of the savings on to you to encourage participation in the plan). Most consumers never notice it happening because they use little hot water in the middle of the day and the insulation on the tank keeps the water hot for hours anyway (really over a day depending on the model and how hot you consider acceptable).

In this case, consider that many appliances (A/C, fridge, well/sump pump) have a spike in their current draw as they are starting up, but have much lower run rates. "Smart" controls on that battery can level out the demand from the home without a net draw on the battery. Connected to a smart grid, and it can do the same thing in the agregate for supply surges.

But I still don't see how depending on cars being plugged in is a smart architecture

Not on any particular car... but on cars in the agregate.

Not only is it a hostile act to take precious electrons out of my car battery,

Not at all. You would choose whether or not to participate (and to what extent) and would be compensated for it. Take that water heater example. As I remember it, you could save $5/month by just agreeing to make your unit available to the demand management program (this was several years ago). There are some programs that aren't even "smart"... they just turn of the water heater entirely from 7am to 11pm and saving $10-15/month. There are lots of people who would still never notice the difference.

if several of us happen not to be plugged in at that moment, it seems like that whole premise falls apart.

The system would need to be designed to account for cars being used as cars.

But the EVs of the future will likely be plugged in either at home or at work a very high percentage of the time. And, of course, that behavior can be modified with incentives funded by the savings they provide to the grid.

Another think that Kristopher had mentioned in the past is that EV batteries have value to the grid long after they are usefull in the car. The repurposing of those batteries in smarter homes or in bunches as grid storage can help make EVs affordable sooner and reduce the expense of grid storage.

The bottom line, as I see it, is that EVs are nowhere near being commercially viable at this point.

Of course not. But infrastructure planning is a game with a very long time horizon. They will someday be viable unless something better comes along.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Very interesting. A major fallacy in the energy world is that the same technology can BlueStreak Apr 2013 #1
“… Some nitwits have talked about truly hair-brained schemes …” OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #2
Why would I want to own an electric car if the power company could BlueStreak Apr 2013 #3
While I’m skeptical of V2G I believe your estimation is off OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #4
In that example, I believe they ran the gas engine BlueStreak Apr 2013 #5
I don’t mean to suggest that people should do this themselves OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #6
"Drain EVs" dramatically oversimplifies the proposal. FBaggins Apr 2013 #7
Regarding the third area BlueStreak Apr 2013 #8
No... I mean actual supply/demand spikes. FBaggins Apr 2013 #9
V2G efficiency losses are at least 20% wtmusic Apr 2013 #11
Did you read the reply? FBaggins Apr 2013 #12
Or, put another way, it’s about 80% efficient OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #15
Do you like green eggs and ham? (Why?) wtmusic Apr 2013 #18
Maybe I don't understand the leveling problem BlueStreak Apr 2013 #14
Agree on V2G, fuel cells have been a few years away for 20 years wtmusic Apr 2013 #10
EVs are way under 1% of the market BlueStreak Apr 2013 #13
Automotive (hydrogen) fuel cells will never happen. wtmusic Apr 2013 #16
They’re already here OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #17
They've been "here" for twenty years. wtmusic Apr 2013 #19
No, they”re being assembled now. OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #20
They're selling them to fleets wtmusic Apr 2013 #21
Um… perhaps they want an actual clean technology OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #22
Compressed H2 reformed from natural gas is significantly more efficient used in an FCV wtmusic Apr 2013 #27
Yeah, I didn’t want to overstate the case OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #32
Let's find out. wtmusic Apr 2013 #35
“Apparently the difference has to do with electricity used in the reforming process.” OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #36
From a manufacturer who's hyping their FCV and doesn't offer a BEV. wtmusic Apr 2013 #37
Now, why do you suppose he would be irrationally attracted to FCEV’s? OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #38
For the same reason VW was attracted to them? wtmusic Apr 2013 #39
I guess we’ll see OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #40
In situ Hydrogen generation (talk about a political football) BlueStreak Apr 2013 #24
You could generate your own hydrogen from a solar array wtmusic Apr 2013 #25
That may all be true. What it boils down is that both camps are hoping for a miracle BlueStreak Apr 2013 #26
There are 50,000 people in the U.S. driving cars which you say are not "anywhere close" wtmusic Apr 2013 #28
What do you drive? BlueStreak Apr 2013 #30
The one huge disadvantage of EVs BlueStreak Apr 2013 #29
Recharging is really not a problem. wtmusic Apr 2013 #31
For me, that would work as a SECOND car if it had twice the range BlueStreak Apr 2013 #34
Pressurization may not be the challenge you imagine OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #33
Think of the market for ... oldhippie Apr 2013 #23
The name of the team leader might be familiar to some longtime EE readers kristopher Apr 2013 #41
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