Environment & Energy

BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)

26. That may all be true. What it boils down is that both camps are hoping for a miracle

Thu Apr 25, 2013, 11:52 PM

Apr 2013

Fact: Neither technology is anywhere close to being commercially viable today. And neither will be without a miracle breakthrough of roughly an order of magnitude.

We can speculate about who will get their miracle and when. I enjoy that. But I hope we all realize the reality here.

While all of this is going on, the really important action is happening with huge improvements in gasoline MPG in the mainstream market. Hybrids are an important part of that, of course, be some non-hybrid (or extremely mild hybrids) are mow getting well into the 30s, close to 40 MPG. This dwarfs any real-world impact by EVs and fuel cells.

We are clearly in a transition, but this transition may run a lot longer than the enthusiasts for EVs and other technologies would like.

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New (Flow) Battery Design Could Help Solar and Wind Energy Power the Grid [View all] OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 OP

Very interesting. A major fallacy in the energy world is that the same technology can BlueStreak Apr 2013 #1

“… Some nitwits have talked about truly hair-brained schemes …” OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #2

Why would I want to own an electric car if the power company could BlueStreak Apr 2013 #3

While I’m skeptical of V2G I believe your estimation is off OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #4

In that example, I believe they ran the gas engine BlueStreak Apr 2013 #5

I don’t mean to suggest that people should do this themselves OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #6

"Drain EVs" dramatically oversimplifies the proposal. FBaggins Apr 2013 #7

Regarding the third area BlueStreak Apr 2013 #8

No... I mean actual supply/demand spikes. FBaggins Apr 2013 #9

V2G efficiency losses are at least 20% wtmusic Apr 2013 #11

Did you read the reply? FBaggins Apr 2013 #12

Or, put another way, it’s about 80% efficient OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #15

Do you like green eggs and ham? (Why?) wtmusic Apr 2013 #18

Maybe I don't understand the leveling problem BlueStreak Apr 2013 #14

Agree on V2G, fuel cells have been a few years away for 20 years wtmusic Apr 2013 #10

EVs are way under 1% of the market BlueStreak Apr 2013 #13

Automotive (hydrogen) fuel cells will never happen. wtmusic Apr 2013 #16

They’re already here OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #17

They've been "here" for twenty years. wtmusic Apr 2013 #19

No, they”re being assembled now. OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #20

They're selling them to fleets wtmusic Apr 2013 #21

Um… perhaps they want an actual clean technology OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #22

Compressed H2 reformed from natural gas is significantly more efficient used in an FCV wtmusic Apr 2013 #27

Yeah, I didn’t want to overstate the case OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #32

Let's find out. wtmusic Apr 2013 #35

“Apparently the difference has to do with electricity used in the reforming process.” OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #36

From a manufacturer who's hyping their FCV and doesn't offer a BEV. wtmusic Apr 2013 #37

Now, why do you suppose he would be irrationally attracted to FCEV’s? OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #38

For the same reason VW was attracted to them? wtmusic Apr 2013 #39

I guess we’ll see OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #40

In situ Hydrogen generation (talk about a political football) BlueStreak Apr 2013 #24

You could generate your own hydrogen from a solar array wtmusic Apr 2013 #25

That may all be true. What it boils down is that both camps are hoping for a miracle BlueStreak Apr 2013 #26

There are 50,000 people in the U.S. driving cars which you say are not "anywhere close" wtmusic Apr 2013 #28

What do you drive? BlueStreak Apr 2013 #30

The one huge disadvantage of EVs BlueStreak Apr 2013 #29

Recharging is really not a problem. wtmusic Apr 2013 #31

For me, that would work as a SECOND car if it had twice the range BlueStreak Apr 2013 #34

Pressurization may not be the challenge you imagine OKIsItJustMe Apr 2013 #33

Think of the market for ... oldhippie Apr 2013 #23

The name of the team leader might be familiar to some longtime EE readers kristopher Apr 2013 #41