Environment & Energy

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)

4. If we reduce energy consumption, civilization begins to decay, and people begin to die.

Thu May 16, 2013, 03:35 PM

May 2013

Because civilization (which is composed of all our accumulated capital plus a bunch of people) is essentially a thermodynamic heat engine, there's no way around that outcome.

So the question is, how much decay are we willing to tolerate? What's that I hear? None? Okey-dokey then...

Seriously though, I suspect the aggregate problem of civilization, population, human activity and consumption is far too complex to analyze that way. We could each survive on probably 10x food energy, but it wouldn't be pretty. Plus the poor would fall off the plate first, leaving such a plan open to charges of genocide...

This is why I've stopped proposing, or even looking for, solutions. As far as I can tell, there really aren't any. There never were - as far back as you care to look.

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The robust carbon intensity of global primary energy [View all] GliderGuider May 2013 OP

What exactly pscot May 2013 #1

I think it's a polite way of describing someone who has an... GliderGuider May 2013 #2

I wonder what the minimum is to sustain life and limb. Iterate May 2013 #3

If we reduce energy consumption, civilization begins to decay, and people begin to die. GliderGuider May 2013 #4

I don't see any states in decay or collapse until you get below 1.5 or so Mtons per capita. Iterate May 2013 #5

You can't really look at individual states for this purpose GliderGuider May 2013 #7

Ok. I can better see now where our ideas are diverging. Iterate May 2013 #8

if you squint, it's been plateaued since 1915 phantom power May 2013 #6