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leveymg

(36,418 posts)
15. That doesn't answer the question: how much to chill down to -200 degrees?
Tue May 21, 2013, 05:39 PM
May 2013

Come on, let's play the game, give it try.

Here's an answer: Wiki Liquid Nitrogen Vehicle

Liquid nitrogen production is an energy-intensive process. Currently practical refrigeration plants producing a few tons/day of liquid nitrogen operate at about 50% of Carnot efficiency.[6] Currently surplus liquid nitrogen is produced as a byproduct in the production of liquid oxygen.[4]


So, if this is accurate, how good is 50% Carnot efficiency? A lot better than current steam engines, gas-fueled turbine steam generators, and internal combustion engines, according to another source: http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2010/explained-carnot-0519.html

At the time of Carnot’s work, the best steam engines in the world had an overall efficiency of only about 3 percent. Today, conventional steam engines can reach efficiencies of 25 percent, and gas-fired turbine steam generators in power plants can reach 40 percent or more — compared to a Carnot Limit, depending on the exact heat differences in such plants, of about 51 percent. Today’s car engines have efficiencies of 20 percent or less, compared to their Carnot Limit of 37 percent.


See how easy that can be? However, I wouldn't mortgage the house on the first estimate of 50% efficiency, as that's right at the theoretical limit, and apparently there is no mass production of liquid nitrogen.

All I wanted was an answer, not an argument.

Recommendations

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How much energy does it take to cool nitrogen down to -200 degrees and keep it there? leveymg May 2013 #1
Gosh! I bet they never thought of that! OKIsItJustMe May 2013 #2
Just try answering the question, you posted the OP. leveymg May 2013 #3
Snark attack, eh? OKIsItJustMe May 2013 #6
An entirely appropriate question, my friend. longship May 2013 #7
Did that strike as a serious inquiry? OKIsItJustMe May 2013 #10
More snark? Really!? longship May 2013 #12
We're used to people who have a somewhat better knowledge base... kristopher May 2013 #13
I guess you missed my point OKIsItJustMe May 2013 #14
Perhaps investing a few seconds to read the article will answer your questions OKIsItJustMe May 2013 #11
That doesn't answer the question: how much to chill down to -200 degrees? leveymg May 2013 #15
The real question is not how much energy it takes to chill it OKIsItJustMe May 2013 #17
Is systems analysis catching on at DU? ;-) leveymg May 2013 #19
Less than drilling for/refining/shipping fossil fuels. silverweb May 2013 #4
50-60% Efficient tinrobot May 2013 #5
Any method of storage is “less efficient than using the power directly” OKIsItJustMe May 2013 #8
And that almost always requires an application specific evaluation. nt kristopher May 2013 #9
I think there's something to this idea htuttle May 2013 #16
There's quite a variety of thermal storage technologies. kristopher May 2013 #18
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