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Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
36. Yes, I am
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:58 AM
Jun 2013

And thanks, I know how photosynthesis works. You're missing the point.

It takes energy to grow the algae - can't do it with sun alone. You need whatever it takes to fertilize and aerate the stuff - the manufacture of which requires energy. And of course, the construction of the tanks themselves take energy. And then the harvesting takes energy. The processing takes energy. The refining takes energy. The storing takes energy. The transport takes energy. Every bit of manufacture at each step, takes energy.

At each stage, energy is lost as well - no machine operates at 100% energy efficiency, it is just impossible (perhaps you believe in perpetual motion machines?)

What this means is that using biofuels to create more biofuels results in diminishing returns in terms of energy output. Even in a fantasy dreamland where 100% energy efficiency could be achieved, 100% output is all you could get - that is, equal to what you put in. Never more.

This is the same for fossil fuels as well, by the way; using fossil fuels to harvest and process fossil fuels is inefficient in the same way. The trick there is that fossil fuels are the collected energy storage of millions of years. we're not starting from scratch as with manmade biofuel. We're essentially transferring stored energy from millions of years ago, to the modern day, creating the illusion of over 100% efficiency in production. As fossil fuel stores shrink however, that efficiency declines, because more work is needed to get lesser quality material like the tar sands. if it started out at 200% efficiency, it shrinks down to 150% efficiency, then 120%, 107%, etc. We'll eventually reach the same problem here as with biofuels - the energy output will not justify the energy input. We hit that point faster with biofuels because we're "starting from scratch" rather than drawing on eons of stored energy.

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So they found out how to make gas? RobertEarl Jun 2013 #1
You can bet that if there was a buck to be made from algae today, they'd be making it. GliderGuider Jun 2013 #3
Heh RobertEarl Jun 2013 #4
I'm not greenwashing Exxon. I know exactly what they are. GliderGuider Jun 2013 #8
Greenwashing was not the correct term RobertEarl Jun 2013 #9
We're cool then. GliderGuider Jun 2013 #11
True ....... oldhippie Jun 2013 #16
Yes, of course RobertEarl Jun 2013 #19
And this RobertEarl Jun 2013 #20
As long as it makes you feel good ..... oldhippie Jun 2013 #26
You do this every time RobertEarl Jun 2013 #29
I'm sorry ...... oldhippie Jun 2013 #30
Exxon is just a business. Laelth Jun 2013 #12
This message was self-deleted by its author GliderGuider Jun 2013 #13
That's a clear and sane position. GliderGuider Jun 2013 #14
No argument from me, really. Laelth Jun 2013 #18
alarming ignorance pervasive poopfuel Jun 2013 #15
I very much appreciate your interest in educating me. Laelth Jun 2013 #17
you're welcome. Start with the website alcoholcanbeagas.com, plenty to see there. Links, etc poopfuel Jun 2013 #23
Ethanol wercal Jun 2013 #27
good post poopfuel Jun 2013 #41
That we have such difficulty maintaining our energy structures is revealing Scootaloo Jun 2013 #2
Sure we are. RobertEarl Jun 2013 #5
It's not magic Scootaloo Jun 2013 #7
I smell a paid blogger here poopfuel Jun 2013 #24
Oh please... NickB79 Jun 2013 #28
Beg pardon? Scootaloo Jun 2013 #31
Sorry but you're wrong kristopher Jun 2013 #32
Energy and carbon are two different things Scootaloo Jun 2013 #33
It's possible, but difficult, to have a closed carbon cycle. GliderGuider Jun 2013 #34
Are you for real? kristopher Jun 2013 #35
Yes, I am Scootaloo Jun 2013 #36
You don't have a point - you're wrong. kristopher Jun 2013 #37
The part where you carry the two, I suppose Scootaloo Jun 2013 #38
Not a problem kristopher Jun 2013 #40
You'd figure that they would jump on this. Indyfan53 Jun 2013 #6
They will RobertEarl Jun 2013 #10
I saw a presentation by Matt Simmons a few yrs. back, w. a sentence that nailed it . . . hatrack Jun 2013 #22
Exactly. n/t poopfuel Jun 2013 #25
I predict algae fuel manufacturing will find its sustainable place in agriculture kristopher Jun 2013 #21
Here is more information from Bloomberg Socialistlemur Jun 2013 #39
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»After $100 Million, Exxon...»Reply #36