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Environment & Energy
In reply to the discussion: San Onofre shutdown will mean tight electricity supplies [View all]FBaggins
(28,705 posts)68. Yes... that's what I'm saying.
wow, well you have NO credibility on this topic now. NONE.
Lol. Shows how much you know.
on the California coast, with hundreds of miles of active faults, on a coast with thousands of miles of faults that can create catastrophic earthquakes in far and near regions, you are making it sound like the risk is as small and unusual as New York or the east coast.
Not "as small as" New York... but both are small compared to areas with actual tsunami risks. In California, a tsunami coming in means "get off the beach!". In Japan it means "evacuate the city and head for the hills!". In tsunami-prone areas, tsunami can kill thousands to even hundreds of thousands of people... in the continental US, the worst tsunami on record killed about a dozen people. We talk about tsunami (because you can have a "tsunami" even if it's too small to notice), but it's really not the same thing. The areas in, say, San Francisco that are at risk for tsunami... are the same areas that are at risk of coastal flooding from significant storms.
which means that you know so little about the region that you shouldn't be taken seriously while talking about it.
Nope. It means that you failed your elementary school lessons in geology. Your understanding clearly extends only as far as "earthquakes cause tsunami... therefore anywhere that has earthquakes is in danger from tsunami".
What you miss is that there are different types of earthquakes caused by different types of faults... and some of them cause dangerous tsunami and some don't.
To oversimplify it for you... when you have what is called a "strike-slip" fault, earthquake motion is primarily horizontal. This doesn't tend to generate significant tsunami... and happens to be what we have along the West Coast. Normal/Reverse faults (or dip and slip faults) are different. Ground motion is primarily vertical... and when it happens on the sea floor, you can get significant tsunami. That's what they have around Japan (and what we have in Alaska). What are sometimes called "mega-thrust earthquakes" form in subduction zone (where one tectonic plate is forced under another - rather than sliding sideways along it).
There is a comparatively small subduction zone off of Oregon, but that plate (Gorda) is tiny compared to the ones that create havoc off Japan.
You see "hundreds of miles of active faults" and just assume that you understand what that means... but never noticed that will all of California's quakes, they don't ever get significant tsunami? They've had dozens of incidents that are technically tsunami... but never anything significant like what we're talking about. Are you sure that I'm the one that "knows so little of the region" (where I grew up)?
Lol. Shows how much you know.
on the California coast, with hundreds of miles of active faults, on a coast with thousands of miles of faults that can create catastrophic earthquakes in far and near regions, you are making it sound like the risk is as small and unusual as New York or the east coast.
Not "as small as" New York... but both are small compared to areas with actual tsunami risks. In California, a tsunami coming in means "get off the beach!". In Japan it means "evacuate the city and head for the hills!". In tsunami-prone areas, tsunami can kill thousands to even hundreds of thousands of people... in the continental US, the worst tsunami on record killed about a dozen people. We talk about tsunami (because you can have a "tsunami" even if it's too small to notice), but it's really not the same thing. The areas in, say, San Francisco that are at risk for tsunami... are the same areas that are at risk of coastal flooding from significant storms.
which means that you know so little about the region that you shouldn't be taken seriously while talking about it.
Nope. It means that you failed your elementary school lessons in geology. Your understanding clearly extends only as far as "earthquakes cause tsunami... therefore anywhere that has earthquakes is in danger from tsunami".
What you miss is that there are different types of earthquakes caused by different types of faults... and some of them cause dangerous tsunami and some don't.
To oversimplify it for you... when you have what is called a "strike-slip" fault, earthquake motion is primarily horizontal. This doesn't tend to generate significant tsunami... and happens to be what we have along the West Coast. Normal/Reverse faults (or dip and slip faults) are different. Ground motion is primarily vertical... and when it happens on the sea floor, you can get significant tsunami. That's what they have around Japan (and what we have in Alaska). What are sometimes called "mega-thrust earthquakes" form in subduction zone (where one tectonic plate is forced under another - rather than sliding sideways along it).
There is a comparatively small subduction zone off of Oregon, but that plate (Gorda) is tiny compared to the ones that create havoc off Japan.
You see "hundreds of miles of active faults" and just assume that you understand what that means... but never noticed that will all of California's quakes, they don't ever get significant tsunami? They've had dozens of incidents that are technically tsunami... but never anything significant like what we're talking about. Are you sure that I'm the one that "knows so little of the region" (where I grew up)?
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Yeah. Because we have barely scratched the surface of conservation efforts, which
kestrel91316
Jun 2013
#12
I don't know if I would associate 'reliable base load' and San Onofre...
AtheistCrusader
Jun 2013
#2
And how much of a hole in the grid when a few wind turbines overspeed and break?
AtheistCrusader
Jun 2013
#4
I don't think I've ever heard of doldrums affecting an entire state grid.
AtheistCrusader
Jun 2013
#7
Hell, I don't think the wind EVER dies down in the Tehachapi Pass or out in the desert........
kestrel91316
Jun 2013
#10
All it takes is a little intense heat in California and the winds begin to blow
CreekDog
Jun 2013
#62
the irony is that you want us to think of wind and solar as some scheming "industry"
CreekDog
Jun 2013
#89
"wind turbines are far less carbon intensive than the nuclear fuel cycle" WRONG
wtmusic
Jun 2013
#39
California has the highest geothermal production capacity in the nation.
AtheistCrusader
Jun 2013
#75
The 1995 Hanshin quake in Kobe was a strike-slip and even though only a 7.2, produced
AtheistCrusader
Jun 2013
#24
The Fukushima Dai-ichi sea wall was considered adequate by some, until it wasn't.
AtheistCrusader
Jun 2013
#31
There have been, and there is risk of tsunami much taller than 14' hitting the west coast.
AtheistCrusader
Jun 2013
#71
Actually, you and PamW are all arguing peculiarly similar things, which are misleading
CreekDog
Jun 2013
#81
They're similar points (since they both correct the same error)... but they aren't 1 or 2
FBaggins
Jun 2013
#82
The simple fact is PamW said specifically that there aren't subduction zones off California --false
CreekDog
Jun 2013
#83
Actually, I pointed out far upthread that the Cocos/Pacific plate fault can produce these tsunami.
AtheistCrusader
Jun 2013
#84
Our understanding of how faults and quakes work in the Pacific is evolving to this day.
AtheistCrusader
Jun 2013
#91
Certainly... but that returns us to the Yellowstone example and the first point
FBaggins
Jun 2013
#92
you're blaming Greenpeace supporters for the shutdown of San Onofre? did they f--- up the plant?
CreekDog
Jun 2013
#61
Hey wtmusic, San Onofre is not "reliable baseload" when it's been off for 1.5 years
CreekDog
Jun 2013
#90